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SPEAKER_09: Miguel is a wildlife biologist who studies animals inside the city of Los Angeles.
SPEAKER_08: As a kid, he and his mom lived in a duplex in Los Feliz on the south side of Griffith Park.
SPEAKER_06: That's producer Ruxandra Guidi. On his hike, Miguel walked through canyons of dark green chaparral, collecting footage from a set of motion-activated trail cameras.
SPEAKER_08: He used the trail cams as part of his research for the U.S. Forest Service, monitoring the animals that call the park home. When he got back to his office, Miguel started sorting through the images.
SPEAKER_09: Usually what my brain kind of gets used to is seeing a bunch of empty photos because grass often triggers my camera or a bunch of deer and rabbit photos. Every now and then, his cameras would pick up other animals, too, like coyotes.
SPEAKER_08: Maybe even a gray fox, if I'm lucky, because I just learned that gray foxes were in the park as well.
SPEAKER_08: But this time around, he didn't see any coyotes or foxes. Instead, he saw something even more extraordinary.
SPEAKER_09: All of a sudden, I get this big puma butt on my computer screen, and I'm just blown away. I literally jump out of my seat. A puma butt.
SPEAKER_08: I'm in shock, and I even go back a few photos and come back to it just to kind of refresh my eyes to make sure it's not a great dane because often people walk their dogs in front of my camera, and that's a big animal.
SPEAKER_09: But this was obviously a puma, which is also commonly called a cougar or a mountain lion.
SPEAKER_08: It had a shiny coat of sandy brown fur, muscular legs, huge furry paws.
SPEAKER_09: And there's also even this little black marking, which is left by males as scent marking residue that only males produce. So not only did I know it was a mountain lion, but we were able to confirm that it was a male just by this butt photo.
SPEAKER_06: Mountain lions are classified as a specially protected species, not quite endangered, but close. There are somewhere between 2,000 and 6,000 of them spread across the foothills and mountains of California. But here was a mountain lion in a municipal park that's used by thousands of people every day in one of the largest, most congested cities in the country.
SPEAKER_09: This was like finding Bigfoot. This was like finding La Chupacabra or some sort of urban legend like that.
SPEAKER_08: As he stared at the puma's butt on his computer screen, Miguel couldn't help but wonder, how on earth did this mountain lion end up here? Where did he come from? How did he get there? What's going to happen next? What's going to happen to this mountain lion?
SPEAKER_09: Is he going to try and escape and get by a car? There was a good chance something like that could happen. Across the state, traffic accidents are the leading cause of mountain lion death.
SPEAKER_08: And yet somehow this one had miraculously survived the trek across L.A.'s busiest highways. Researchers say it's the first documented case of a cougar making it this far into the urban core without getting run over and killed. But now he was effectively stuck, surrounded on all sides by an ocean of freeways and crowded neighborhoods. Wildlife and urban development don't usually go well together. Roads in particular fracture the habitats of wide-ranging animals.
SPEAKER_06: It restricts their movements and makes it harder for them to find food or a mate. However, in the years since Miguel first discovered Griffith Park's mountain lion, biologists and urban planners have started working together, crafting a plan to try to help pumas move more safely around the city.
SPEAKER_08: And in the process, this one cat has turned into something of a celebrity, the symbol of a movement to redesign our cities and make the built environment more friendly to animals.
SPEAKER_07: I met up with Miguel this past winter on the edge of Griffith Park. A decade later, the mountain lion still calls this place home. And he has a name now, P-22.
SPEAKER_08: It's catchy. I like it.
SPEAKER_08: It's super catchy. P-22 stands for Puma Number 22. It was given to him by the National Park Service, which for the past 20 years has been tracking more than a hundred other mountain lions across Southern California. Just after Miguel's discovery, the Park Service captured and tagged P-22 with a GPS collar. By following his movements, they've been able to get a better sense of his health, the size of his territory and his ability to reproduce.
SPEAKER_09: They did matches genetics with a male that they studied, who is his dad, P-1, which stands for Puma-1. And he was the first puma ever studied by the National Park Service. And he was a vicious individual, like the big one of the biggest... For years, P-22's dad, P-1, was the dominant male cougar in the Santa Monica Mountains. He fathered litters of cubs with the female mountain lions who roamed his territory.
SPEAKER_06: But when he couldn't find a mate, he started mating with his offspring. Low genetic diversity is a problem among all mountain lions in the Santa Monica Mountains.
SPEAKER_08: P-1 was also fiercely territorial. When his cubs started taking up a lot of his space, he started killing his offspring. It's possible that P-22 survived his father's wrath by making this unlikely journey to Griffith Park.
SPEAKER_09: I know basically his favorite hangouts and spots, which are trails, funnels, canyons, intersections in trails, places where you see scat tracks, or these other signs called scrapes where they like kick through the back feet like this. You might see some up there.
SPEAKER_08: Miguel is kicking up the dirt gently with his feet so I can try to picture these scrapes. And now I'm looking for signs of a cougar on our trail, checking the ground for scat. There's a part of me that wants to see P-22, but a bigger part does not. He blends in so well, so quiet and silent, that he just can be right over there.
SPEAKER_08: But even if he is right over there, he's likely to stay hidden in the park's deep canyons and caves. Mountain lions may come off as ferocious in our imaginations, but in reality they're actually pretty timid. They're not like the big cats like leopards and African lions and jaguars that are a little bit more bold and fierce. They're a little bit like your cat that is a little bit like a scaredy cat basically.
SPEAKER_06: In the last decade, there's been no evidence of other mountain lions coming into P-22's territory, partly because they too would have to survive the treacherous journey from the Santa Monica Mountains across Interstate 405 and Highway 101. But also because Griffith Park is small, the typical range of a male mountain lion is 150 square miles, but P-22 has only nine square miles to work with. And that's a problem, because if P-22 wants to find a mate, he'd have to retrace his steps, facing busy freeways in neighborhoods or stepping into another cougar's territory.
SPEAKER_07: Do you know if he's attempted to leave the park and go back to the Santa Monica Mountains?
SPEAKER_09: No, but he, well, I don't know what he was thinking, but one time he actually crossed Barham Boulevard, which is bordering us with Universal.
SPEAKER_08: That's Universal Studios. Apparently someone saw P-22 literally crossing the street and reported it. But anyway, he crossed over, went actually into the back lot, where they do the tram tours and all that, and spent the night and didn't like what he experienced, and then crossed right back and he hasn't left ever since.
SPEAKER_06: P-22 has actually left Griffith Park a number of times. He's been spotted roaming around the Hollywood Hills and some other well-to-do neighborhoods surrounding the park. In fact, he's become something of a local celebrity. Angelenos love to track his whereabouts.
SPEAKER_02: Nearby residents like hearing about sightings of P-22 and believe he may have ventured out of Griffith Park because of the heat.
SPEAKER_08: I found him drinking from a sprinkler head that was kind of dripping down onto the sidewalk.
SPEAKER_07: Experts who track and study P-22...
SPEAKER_06: Even Stitcher's own VP of Content and our show's boss, Colin Anderson, had his own run-in with LA's favorite mountain lion. I looked up and P-22 was about 10 feet away from me. And one thing I was really aware of was that I was wearing sandals.
SPEAKER_04: And I was like, this isn't optimal. My shorts and my sandals, like, not dressed for a mountain lion confrontation.
SPEAKER_06: Still, at the end of his adventures, P-22 always ends up coming back to Griffith Park.
SPEAKER_08: From one of the peaks in Griffith Park, about 1,600 feet, you can get a lay of the surrounding land. To the south, the Los Feliz and Silver Lake neighborhoods with sleek palm trees in the distance. To the east is the concrete channel of the LA River, which runs along Interstate 5, one of the busiest freeways in California. And to the north and west is the famous Hollywood sign and another highway, the 101, which runs all the way out to the coast. From up here, you can see that P-22 really is marooned on this island.
SPEAKER_06: But it wasn't always like that. The hills of Griffith Park are part of the Santa Monica mountain range. It's just that developments and major roadways have chewed up large swaths of land. People build to absolute maximum and then think about wildlife, think about the repercussions later.
SPEAKER_08: The island effect isn't some natural occurrence. It's the result of a series of decisions made over decades. A recent study found that if urban development continues as it has, mountain lions could disappear in Southern California within the next 50 years. The demise of such an important apex predator would have a downstream effect on the entire ecosystem.
SPEAKER_02: For me, P-22, like for a lot of people, is an entry into not just socially changing my thinking, but scientifically. Like I just had really not been exposed to the science of connectivity.
SPEAKER_08: Beth Pratt is the California Regional Executive Director for the National Wildlife Federation. She's a big fan of P-22. Even has a tattoo of the mountain lion's face on her shoulder. Around the time P-22 was discovered, Beth came to L.A. to research her book, When Mountain Lions Are Neighbors. She met up with a Puma expert from the National Park Service who took her around town. We drove around the Santa Monica Mountains and he's pointing out these freeways and talking about the other cats that live there.
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, wow, this is, you know, this is a problem. And it also could be this is fixable. Beth thought there must be a way to restitch the landscape to make sure no other mountain lion would have to cross multiple freeways in order to roam and find a mate.
SPEAKER_06: She spoke with other wildlife experts about the problem, but no one had a concrete solution. They knew they needed something to help with connectivity. Was it a tunnel? Was it fencing? Was it an overpass?
SPEAKER_08: Beth and her colleagues weren't going to turn sprawling Southern California into a safe mountain lion habitat all at once, but they needed to start somewhere. So she joined forces with other local wildlife organizations and launched a campaign called Save LA Cougars. The group planned to raise awareness and do more research on the local mountain lion population, but their main goal was to build a massive first of its kind urban wildlife crossing.
SPEAKER_06: Wildlife crossings are physical structures that help animals safely navigate human made barriers like highways. Often they're built in places where roadways cut through dense forests and other open land. Crossings have been shown to both reduce animal vehicle crashes and relink territories that different species call home. They typically come in the form of an underpass or an overpass and have been used widely in Europe for decades.
SPEAKER_08: More recently, they've started taking off in North America. In Canada's Banff National Park, a network of wildlife crossings are used every day by bears, wolves, moose, elk, and yes, mountain lions. Proving that a thoughtfully designed crossing in places where species tend to migrate can benefit humans and wildlife. However, a wildlife overpass in a megacity like Los Angeles had never been done before.
SPEAKER_06: Politicians in particular were skeptical, not just about the utility of an urban wildlife crossing, but its price tag. This would be the biggest and most expensive crossing in the world, spanning 10 lanes of highway. The California Department of Transportation had tried to get federal funding for a project like this three times in the past and failed.
SPEAKER_08: Initially, even Beth struggled to sell the idea of a wildlife crossing to her higher-ups.
SPEAKER_02: I had a boss when I started it who, you know, I presented and they were like, what? What's a wildlife crossing? What does that do? How is that scalable? The Save LA Cougars campaign needed to make it easier for people to get on board with their project.
SPEAKER_08: They needed to help people understand the importance of wildlife conservation inside the city itself, to give Angelenos a clear reason to support the crossing.
SPEAKER_06: They needed P-22.
SPEAKER_02: Listen, it's no accident, you know, this is LA and LA loves their celebrities and worships them. And here's this cat that literally lives under the Hollywood sign. He's handsome. He's, you know, challenged with his dating life. It is a made-for-Hollywood movie.
SPEAKER_08: Since his discovery, Angelenos have gotten to know P-22. With every passing encounter, he was less a fearsome mountain lion prowling Griffith Park and more of a neighbor, someone you might run into as you take out your trash or go out on a morning walk. Save LA Cougars used that recognition to get people to care about the crossing. The campaign also helped build a narrative around P-22.
SPEAKER_06: He was the young cub struck out on his own and by some stroke of luck survived crossing two major highways. He then landed in Los Angeles's most famous park where he himself became famous. Except now he was isolated, alone even, needing to find a way back out.
SPEAKER_08: It was a story people could connect to and many did. His story just resonates compared to any other animals.
SPEAKER_01: No other story is bigger than this one.
SPEAKER_08: Starting in 2016, the Save LA Cougars campaign organized an all-day festival in Griffith Park called P-22 Day. There, Angelenos can sign up for group hikes along parts of P-22's 40-mile trek. Festival goers can even buy P-22 swag like a onesie or a toebag. And most importantly, they can donate to the wildlife crossing. The campaign held their most recent event just last month.
SPEAKER_00: What I love about P-22 is that he reflects the struggles of finding a mate in the urbanized area of Los Angeles, which I feel like I face the same struggles. P-22, P-22, P-22, P-22, get it, get it.
SPEAKER_08: Initially, Beth felt a little strange about all of this. She and her campaign succeeded in making people care about LA's mountain lions. But it wasn't the science that brought them in. It was P-22's celebrity. The campaign was anthropomorphizing P-22, which is something that scientists usually try to steer clear of. Listen, there are people who hate my approach to the campaign. They hate anthropomorphizing.
SPEAKER_02: Even people in my own organization. Like, I'm committing heresy with some of these, you know, traditional scientists. I'm really curious about that. Is that part of kind of a, just like an old school, like you do not need to, yeah.
SPEAKER_08: anthropomorphize or like tell me a story, like we should strictly follow, follow the science and hope that the funding comes through. So I think there's just a lot of people who are just educated in that very hard science mode and they have a hard time with anthropomorphizing.
SPEAKER_06: But turning a puma into a character has gotten results. The campaign to build the wildlife crossing has raised more than one hundred and five million dollars from foundations and private donations. A lot of it on the back of P-22's story. The whole thing has been a success beyond Beth and her colleagues' wildest imaginations.
SPEAKER_02: And we want to welcome everybody watching to the groundbreaking for the Wallace-Annenberg Wildlife Crossing.
SPEAKER_08: Work on the crossing actually began earlier this year. Beth spoke from the site above a section of the 101 freeway, an area that P-22 may have crossed himself on his way to Griffith Park.
SPEAKER_02: And we are so honored to be here and celebrating with you all who looked at this impossible dream and like me said, not on my watch. We are not going to let this mountain lion population go extinct on our watch.
SPEAKER_08: The backdrop of her speech was a reminder of just what a mountain lion is up against. A nonstop stream of cars and trucks. The highway itself runs parallel to the Santa Monica mountains, separating it from the Simi Hills and the larger Los Badras National Forest to the north. This stretch of road is the biggest obstacle for mountain lions who want to find more mates and more land. And because the crossing is in a major city, designers and landscape architects have their work cut out for them to encourage animals to give the bridge a try.
SPEAKER_06: The team is talking to experts on light pollution, fungi, ecological restoration, fencing, and even sound design. When it's done, it'll be 210 feet long and 175 feet wide. So yeah, there's a lot of technique we know how to mimic the habitat and attract them there.
SPEAKER_02: You know, one of the reasons ours is so wide is again, you have to make the animals feel like they're not on the highway. So you can't just put like a, we get asked, why can't you just do four feet and save money? Well, a couple animals might use it, but you need it to look like the landscape. So like for every foot long, there's a ratio. It has to be, you know, that much more wide. And once a few animals check out the crossing and see that it works, more of them will follow.
SPEAKER_02: Word literally gets out in the animal world.
SPEAKER_08: A few weeks back, I went out to the site of the crossing to get a feel for the landscape. So this is the site of the future Liberty Canyon Wildlife Crossing in Agoura Hills.
SPEAKER_07: This is actually the famous neighborhood of the Kardashians. I don't know which Kardashians, but maybe Kim, Kylie. Those are the only two I know. I was wrong. The Kardashians live about 15 minutes east from here.
SPEAKER_08: But anyway, you get the idea. This is, there's a lot of open space.
SPEAKER_07: You can see the Santa Monica Mountains. It's gorgeous out here.
SPEAKER_08: I asked Kat Superfiski to join me at the construction site for this crossing. She's as cool as her last name is fun to say. She's also a designer and educator in the city of L.A.'s first urban ecologist. We're hiking past a deep trench that starts at the edge of the site and creeps up the hill. This is one end of that future bridge, an area where wild animals are known to cross anyway, and where they would typically run into fast-moving cars.
SPEAKER_05: Even from where we're standing right here, you see the clear linkage. We're standing on one kind of mountainous area. We're looking down to another one. If you're an animal, you're going to want to connect to that other, the hillsides. And so they would, again, make it up to the 101 freeway, and then they would have no option other than to cross it to get to the other side. And right now we're providing pretty challenging conditions for them to hop across that, like Frogger. So it's good to think of this as a funnel of sorts, really.
SPEAKER_08: And that's why this site was chosen.
SPEAKER_05: Exactly. Yeah, when the National Park Service...
SPEAKER_08: P-22 and Kat arrived in the city around the same time. And back then, she just wasn't aware of the possibilities of humans coexisting with nature, with wildlife, in a place like Los Angeles.
SPEAKER_05: I showed up thinking that there wasn't going to be a lot of nature in L.A., that I was going to be starting kind of from the concrete itself. And so it took me a couple years to really change the way that I saw a place like L.A., and I practiced a lot peeling back the concrete and the steel and infrastructure, and kind of crossing my eyes and staring at the landscape around me and saying, okay, I can still actually kind of see the mountains. The topography and the landform is still there.
SPEAKER_06: There is a great irony in all this. Despite all the effort, we have no way of knowing whether P-22 will actually use this bridge. The Agoura Hills are about 25 miles west of Griffith Park. Scientists say that as an older puma, he's likely to play it safe, stay put, and accept his fate as a forever bachelor.
SPEAKER_08: But we do know that many, many other animals will use that crossing. Foxes, bobcats, deer, and other mountain lions looking to find a mate or more space to call their own. Beth and Miguel both acknowledge that they used P-22 to try to do something bigger, to begin to stitch the fragmented habitat of Los Angeles back together, to get Angelenos to start thinking of their city as an ecosystem. And these days, it's not just scientists and environmentalists who want to talk about P-22. One mother told me her son, he thinks P-22 is a superhero,
SPEAKER_02: and he runs around the house with a cape and saying, you know, I'm P-22 and I'm going to, like, it's that fundamental connection that is less about science that I am hopeful about, because I think L.A. kids especially, they know these cats like they know football players.
SPEAKER_08: For all we know, P-22 is living a humble and relatively happy mountain lion life in his municipal park. But unknowingly, he's got us on the same page about something important, not just the need to build a huge wildlife crossing in Los Angeles, but the need for coexistence, for connectivity, so that in a big city like L.A., you, me, P-22, and all the other urban dwelling wild animals can all feel a little less alone.
SPEAKER_06: When we come back, a wildlife crossing in action. If you need to design visuals for your brand, you know how important it is to stay on brand. Brands need to use their logos, colors, and fonts in order to stay consistent. It's what makes them stand out. The online design platform Canva makes it easy for everyone to stay on brand. With Canva, you can keep your brand's fonts, logos, colors, and graphics right where you design presentations, websites, videos, and more. Drag and drop your logo into a website design or click to get your social post colors on brand. Create brand templates to give anyone on your team a design head start. You can save time resizing social posts with Canva Magic Resize. If your company decides to rebrand, replace your logo and other brand imagery across all your designs in just a few clicks. If you're a designer, Canva will save you time on the repetitive tasks, and if you don't have a design resource at your fingertips, just design it yourself. With Canva, you don't need to be a designer to design visuals that stand out and stay on brand. Start designing today at Canva.com, the home for every brand. The International Rescue Committee works in more than 40 countries to serve people whose lives have been upended by conflict and disaster. Over 110 million people are displaced around the world, and the IRC urgently needs your help to meet this unprecedented need. The IRC aims to respond within 72 hours after an emergency strikes, and they stay as long as they are needed. Some of the IRC's most important work is addressing the inequalities facing women and girls, ensuring safety from harm, improving health outcomes, increasing access to education, improving economic well-being, and ensuring women and girls have the power to influence decisions that affect their lives. Generous people around the world give to the IRC to help families affected by humanitarian crises with emergency supplies. Your generous donation will give the IRC steady, reliable support, allowing them to continue their ongoing humanitarian efforts even as they respond to emergencies. Donate today by visiting rescue.org slash rebuild. Donate now and help refugee families in need. Chances are you're listening to 99% Invisible on your phone, probably while you're on the go. Think of all that you do on your phone the moment you leave your front door, whether it's looking up directions, scrolling social media, or listening to your favorite podcast. It requires an amazing network. That's why you should switch to T-Mobile. T-Mobile covers more highway miles with 5G than anyone else and helps keep you connected with 5G from the driveway to the highway and the miles in between. Because your phone should just work where you are, it's your lifeline to pretty much everything you didn't bring with you. So next time you head out, whether you're taking a trip or going to work or just running errands, remember, T-Mobile has got you covered. Find out more at T-Mobile dot com slash network and switch to the network that covers more highway miles with 5G than anyone else. Coverage is not available in some areas. See 5G details at T-Mobile dot com. Squarespace is the all-in-one platform for building your brand and growing your business online. Stand out with a beautiful website, engage with your audience and sell anything. Your products, content you create, and even your time. With member areas, you can unlock a new revenue stream for your business and free up time in your schedule by selling access to gated content like videos, online courses or newsletters. This summer, why not share your adventures with your followers in a newsletter or maybe make some fun video compilations of all your summer escapades. Now you can create pro-level videos effortlessly in the Squarespace Video Studio app. You can easily display posts from your social profiles on your website or share your new blogs or videos on social media automatically push website content to your favorite channels so your followers can share it too. Plus, use Squarespace's insights to grow your business. Learn where your site visits and sales are coming from and analyze which channels are most effective. Go to squarespace.com slash invisible for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use the offer code invisible to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. All right, I'm back with our producer, Roxandra Guidi. Rox, you have one more thing that you want to share with us about these wildlife crossings?
SPEAKER_08: Yeah, I have one more quick and kind of a silly thing, except I know I'm not the only one who geeks out on this stuff. So I'm going to have you open up this clip and watch it with me.
SPEAKER_07: It's really short.
SPEAKER_08: So we'll just play the whole clip.
SPEAKER_06: OK, so it's a it's a coyote jumping through a tunnel and it seems to be playing with a badger trying to get it to follow it down the tunnel. Is that what I'm seeing?
SPEAKER_08: Exactly. It's like these two buddies are meeting up by the end of the tunnel. And I just love how excited the coyote is. He looks just like a dog when he spots his leash somewhere and he's ready to go for a walk.
SPEAKER_06: Totally, totally. This is so great. So what is going on in this clip? Well, it went viral about two years ago.
SPEAKER_07: And what I love about it is that the tunnel they are merrily strolling through, it's actually a wildlife crossing.
SPEAKER_08: Oh, OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this one specifically is a wildlife underpass and it's in California, further up the 101 up near Gilroy, a few miles south of San Jose.
SPEAKER_06: And this is the same 101 that runs through L.A. and is a big problem for, you know, for mountain lions in the area that we were talking about in the story. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_07: So this underpass was built to seemingly help with that habitat fracturing and to prevent roadkill, not to mention all the accidents and deaths that vehicle animal collisions create, you know.
SPEAKER_08: Which is not a small number.
SPEAKER_06: No, not at all.
SPEAKER_08: Research shows that there are between one and two million vehicle and large animal collisions every year in the U.S. And thousands of those accidents result in some sort of human injury and sometimes even human deaths. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: And almost always the death of the of the animal, too. Oh, yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_06: So what we're seeing in this video with this underpass and this coyote in this badger is this typical behavior for these two or is the underpass like causing them to behave differently or what is going on? You know, that's a great question.
SPEAKER_07: Coyotes and badgers were not widely known to hunt together until kind of recently.
SPEAKER_08: And this video shows that dynamic because a coyote can chase and catch its prey and a badger can dig if the prey hits underground. So the video helps show scientists this collaboration among species. So it's like, you know, they're doing what they normally do.
SPEAKER_06: They just happen to be doing it while crossing under the 101. That's right.
SPEAKER_08: Exactly. If anything, the underpass facilitated them to go on and do the thing that they do. And, you know, there's a lot of videos out there documenting animals using a crossing. There's this video of a Florida panther and its kittens going under an interstate in Florida and a bobcat and her kittens sort of excitedly prancing under a bridge in Salinas, California. I mean, I would imagine just like turning P-22 into a celebrity to make a wildlife crossing happen, that a video like this, you know, reinforces that this is an issue, that there should be awareness of it.
SPEAKER_06: And when it's solved, it's extremely adorable. And so knowing these stories and seeing these videos like this, is it really changing the way people are thinking about wildlife crossings when they're doing new construction? Yeah, actually, just recently a bill was passed in California that makes the California Department of Transportation prioritize crossings when they're working on or building new roadways.
SPEAKER_06: That sounds like a good thing. It is a very good thing.
SPEAKER_08: But like the real solution would be to stop building so many damn roads in the first place so that these animals wouldn't have to cross our busy highways. That's true.
SPEAKER_06: This doesn't have to be a problem that we solve. This could be just a problem that we just don't create. There you go. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: Well, thanks again for sharing the story with us, Rox. I mean, we really appreciate it. Thank you, Roman.
SPEAKER_06: 99% Invisible was produced this week by Roxandra Guidi, edited by Jason De Leon and Emmett Fitzgerald, sound mix by Martine Gonzalez, music by our director of sound, Swan Rial, fact checking by Graham Haysha. Delaney Hall is the senior editor. Kurt Kohlstedt is the digital director. Olivia Green is our intern. The rest of the team includes Vivien Leigh, Loshma Dawn, Chris Berube, Christopher Johnson, Jacob Maldonado Medina, Kelly Prime, Joe Rosenberg, Sophia Klatsker and me, Roman Mars. We are part of Stitcher and Sirius XM podcast family now headquartered six blocks north in the Pandora building in beautiful uptown Oakland, California. You can find the show and join discussions about the show on Facebook. You can tweet at me at Roman Mars and the show at 99PI.org. We're on Instagram, Reddit and TikTok too. You can find links to other Stitcher shows I love, as well as every past episode of 99PI at 99PI.org. Forget it Stitcher, it's Cougar Town.
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