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SPEAKER_05: Hey, everyone. So last year, to mark the 10th anniversary of her beauty brand, the Lip Bar, Melissa Butler hung a billboard in her hometown of Detroit. And it said, Shark Tank Told Me to Quit. Ten years and two million units sold. Thanks, Mr. Wonderful. We shared Melissa's amazing story a few years back, including that disastrous appearance on Shark Tank. So in case you missed it, or even if you heard it, we think you will love it.
SPEAKER_01: Enjoy. When people came to my house, like, it was literally a lab. Like, I definitely didn't have an apartment. You know, I've ruined stoves. I've lost security deposits. People come over my house and want ice and I have no ice because my freezer is filled with lipstick molds. I'm like, oh, if you want ice, you're barking up the wrong tree. I don't have ice. I have lipstick.
SPEAKER_05: Welcome to How I Built This, a show about innovators, entrepreneurs, idealists, and the stories behind the movements they built. I'm Guy Raz, and on the show today, how Melissa Butler launched a lipstick brand at her kitchen stove and got it into hundreds of Target stores, all the while challenging an industry to change the way it thinks about color and beauty. There are some industries that are really hard to break into if you're looking to start a business. For example, a car company. Just think how hard that would be. But aside from lots of experience and engineering know-how, you'd need an insane amount of money just to get it off the ground, which is why you don't see that many new car companies every year. Now, one day, it may very well be possible that someone will figure out how to make cars in a really cheap and cost-efficient way that could allow lots more entrepreneurs to enter that category, which is essentially what happened to the cosmetics industry in the past two decades. It used to be that getting into cosmetics required a lot of experience, a network of connections, and lots of money. But today, the barriers to entry are much lower. There are dozens of white-label manufacturers all over the world that will happily make your product for a relatively small price. And it's meant that there's been an explosion of new cosmetics brands over the past decade. Which makes sense, because the global beauty industry is worth half a trillion dollars. Lipstick alone? It's a $9 billion global market. I mean, there is a lot of money in beauty. And so to stand out, brands really have to be about more than just the products. Which is exactly how Melissa Butler thought about her brand, the Lip Bar. When she started making her own lipstick in her apartment, she knew she wanted something that not only challenged the idea of what beauty is, but how we define who it's meant to apply to. Melissa wanted to make lipsticks that were bold and brash and vivid, in colors that, at the time, weren't widely available. Blacks and golds and purples and bright neon pinks. Shades and colors that were expressive and strong and confident, and most importantly, made for a whole category of women who weren't being served by the market. Which happened to be Melissa's cohort. Black and brown women who didn't feel like there was a makeup brand made with them in mind. The story of how Melissa turned her kitchen stove project into a cosmetics brand that's now in hundreds of Target stores across the country includes a cross-country promotional tour in a retrofitted airport shuttle bus, a disastrous appearance on Shark Tank, and a decision to move the business from New York to her hometown of Detroit, where she grew up with her sister and her mom in the 1990s.
SPEAKER_01: My mom was a crane operator, which is really crazy to say right now because I'm 34 and I've never ever met anyone else that was a crane operator. But basically she worked at a steel factory. You know, Detroit is automotive. So she was at a steel company that created steel and parts for the automotive industry.
SPEAKER_05: And so she would leave for work in the morning with a hard hat?
SPEAKER_01: Steel boots. Yeah, definitely steel toe boots that I would sometimes put on and they were heavy as hell that I would put on and like kind of wobble around the house with. And so she would go to work at 11 p.m. and come home in the morning. And so I used to look at it as a disadvantage that I was raised in a one parent household because, you know, everyone needs their dad and everyone needs both parents. You need that nature and that nurture. You need that protector and that provider. You need your mom to be soft, or at least that's what I used to think. And as I've gotten older, I realized that it's probably one of my biggest advantages because watching my mom do something and work in an industry that is so male dominated, I think it was only her and her best friend. They were the only two women in that entire steel factory. She saw that that she had to live life for her and that no one was coming to save her. So she taught us very early that we had to save ourselves. So it was like she directionally ingrained this pathway for both me and my sister.
SPEAKER_05: Who's your mom? Was she pretty strict?
SPEAKER_01: No, my mom wasn't strict at all. My mom was working. She was working all the time. I could have been a very wild kid, but I wasn't. I didn't sneak boys into the house. I remember growing up and those curious teenage years where you may be interested in drinking, or maybe you want to smoke pot for the first time, or even sex. I wasn't interested in any of it. And I've never been a person to study. I would never say that I was a good student, but I always got good grades.
SPEAKER_05: I don't know Detroit super well. I've only been there briefly a couple times. Tell me about your neighborhood. Your mom, I'm assuming, was a union job and probably had a pretty solidly middle class income and health insurance and those kinds of things that came with the job. What was your neighborhood like?
SPEAKER_01: Guy in my neighborhood was horrible, actually. I'm from one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in Detroit, but I never felt unsafe. Even though we didn't have a lot, I never needed anything. In high school, for instance, I was one of the quote unquote cool girls who had the designer clothes, but that was really my mom doing her best to provide for us what she felt like would satisfy us. And now when I talked to her, I remember maybe a year ago, I was like, Mom, we were living way beyond our means. And she's like, yeah, but I did it for you. And I'm like, that was irresponsible. And we kind of laugh about it now. But she was like, I just wanted you to be happy. And I wanted to be able to provide for you the life that I felt like you deserved.
SPEAKER_05: OK, so you did well at school. You got good grades. And I guess you were able to test into this pretty competitive public high school in Detroit called Cass Tech, right?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's right near downtown. And it's essentially a college prep school. And it was probably 98% black students. Now it's a little bit more diverse because the city of Detroit is changing. So right now, there's a lot more investment in the city, whereas 15 years ago, no one was downtown Detroit. So when I went to Cass Tech, it was surrounded by people who were either homeless or drug addicts. So it's like this amazing school that's in the midst of all the blight. So Detroit went through a really tough time. And it hasn't been until maybe the last 10 years that it's experienced this renaissance.
SPEAKER_05: Do you remember as a high school kid thinking, I'm going to get out of this place. Like I am going to leave this place and I'm going to make money and I'm going to do something really interesting with my life. Do you remember having those thoughts?
SPEAKER_01: I don't. I don't think that I thought about... I never thought that I needed to leave Detroit. Even with me living in a not so nice neighborhood, I didn't think that there was anything wrong with it.
SPEAKER_05: But I mean, soon after you graduated, you would wind up leaving Detroit. In fact, I mean, you left Michigan, right?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. And I was like, well, if I'm going to go to college, I'm going to go away. And most of my really good friends actually stayed in Michigan, but I knew that I wanted to go to a HBCU. That was a given. I knew that I wanted to be around black people. And so I didn't want to go to what we call a PWI, which is a predominantly white institution. I knew that I didn't want to go to Michigan State or Michigan because I wanted to have some pride and really have the black experience. Right.
SPEAKER_05: So I guess you start off at Alabama State, which is in Montgomery, Alabama, but then you decided to transfer to Florida, to Florida A&M in Tallahassee.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. And they were both two really great HBCUs and they both had really good business programs. I knew that I wanted to get into business because in high school, I used to work at my cousin's clothing shop. So my cousin is my first exposure to entrepreneurship. He had a store in the mall and he taught me everything about margin and pricing your product and hiring people. And he also gave me a lot of independence. And now that I say that, I think that was the theme of my childhood, having independence and being given this room to be a free thinker and come up with the answer for yourself because I'll never forget it was probably Christmas Eve. And he allowed me to count all of the money that we made that day. And it was the most money I had ever seen. It was insane. And I think I counted maybe like $12,000 and I was just like, oh my God, he's rich. And my entire goal for going to college wasn't necessarily because I wanted to get a higher education. I didn't really care about it that much. But I went to college because I was like, this is how I can make money.
SPEAKER_05: So what was your plan? Like, how are you going to do that?
SPEAKER_01: So literally I switched my concentration and my focus to business finance. And that's where I stayed. And I was like, okay, well, if I'm going to do this finance thing, I'm going to go work on Wall Street because now I can be the Wolf of Wall Street. Again, being influenced by pop culture. So I didn't know anything about it. Again, my mom was a crane operator and I had a cousin who was an entrepreneur, but I didn't know that there were so many different paths to make money. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: Okay, so you wanted to get into finance, but before you graduated, I read that you actually spent some time in China, like in Beijing, learning Mandarin.
SPEAKER_01: For six months. Oh, wow. And I had just been really fascinated with China and this idea that China was about to be the next superpower. And I was like, that would make me valuable if I wanted to learn about business. You know, if I'm this business girl, I should go to China and learn a little bit about their business. But it was a complete culture shock. I think I was sharing that literally my entire life was black. Like, I came from black Detroit. You know, I went to a black, all black high school in Detroit. I went to a black college and now here I am the only black woman and I'm in the middle of Beijing. It was so odd. And I think they were also shocked. You know, people would come up to me and touch my skin and everyone automatically assumed that I was from an African country because if you had black skin, then you were automatically from Africa. And if you were from America, then you were blonde hair, blue eyes. Right.
SPEAKER_05: I mean, how would you assess the whole experience? Was it?
SPEAKER_01: It was life changing.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Oh my God. It was life changing. Like I understood how big and small the world was. I understood how a woman from Detroit could have such synergy and connection with a woman from Iceland. Like one of my really good friends who I met there, she was from Iceland and like she was my best friend when I was in the program sort of thing. And we would just talk about a lot of the same things, even though we had a completely different life. And I think for the first time in my life, I understood that we were all human and it wasn't just black, white, Asian. It was just humans. Wow.
SPEAKER_05: So you come back to the US and you decided to go work on Wall Street for Barclays bank. And when you got to New York, what was that like? Was it exhilarating? Were you just like, were you just kind of blown away by it or were you sort of, was it unnerving to be in this kind of corporate environment? What was your memory of starting out at Barclays as an analyst?
SPEAKER_01: I thought, and I still think that New York is the most magical city on the planet. I was awestruck. And I started very quickly meeting other people who like worked at JP Morgan Chase or worked at Goldman Sachs. And it was like a whole world. But I remember my first week being really excited and expressing that I wanted to learn and I wanted to learn as much as possible and I wanted to be good. And one of my managers was like, get over it, kid. They give shit bonuses. And I was like, wait, what? I didn't know what that really meant. I didn't know what a good bonus was, what a bad bonus was. I just knew that he was unhappy. And a lot of my team members were unhappy. So I think very quickly, I learned that I wasn't going to learn that much, but then also that if I stayed there, that I would be in this environment where no one likes their job. And from my perspective, I'm like, hell, I just got all these student loans. I had racked up like $50,000. You're not going to pay them back. But also, I didn't do all that. I didn't go to college and get these student loans and go to China for six months to be in a career that I hate. And then from what you're telling me isn't necessarily even a career path that's desirable anymore. So I was disheartened, if I'm going to be honest. It was mostly white men. And they would ask me questions about my hair because I would, as a black woman, one of your superpowers is that you get to change your hair all the time and do whatever you want to do. And I was constantly asked about either my hair or my clothes or if something happened in the media with a black person. And this is oftentimes the plight of a black person working in corporate America. You're never able to be an individual. So every day I had to answer for the entire black race. And it was exhausting. Working at Barclays was exhausting. Fair enough.
SPEAKER_05: I mean, it sounds like the most boring job on the planet. Let's be honest. It is. It finally just sounds so boring. You have tons of money if you stick with it, but my God. Yeah, it's not fun. So you're doing this. You're clearly, this is not like what you want to devote your life to, but you need the job. You need the money and you're kind of working and earning your paycheck. But I guess on the side, you were kind of just looking for different creative outlets. And I read that one of them was making soap.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. So I had gotten really into this soap that was sold at Whole Foods. It was so expensive. My mom thought that I was crazy because I tried to call her like, mom, I found this soap. It was so cool. And she's like, what is it? I'm like, well, first of all, it's expensive. It's like $6 a bar. And she's like, $6 soap? I grew up where my mom would buy like, you know, the six pack or eight pack of like Dove or Dial and that whole thing was $6. She's like, you're buying one bar of soap for $6? She's like, I don't want to know about it. So I'm buying these expensive soaps and as a hobby, because also I'm now listening to my mom like, wow, I am spending a lot of money on soap. And I'm like, well, if this soap is so great, because it's natural and it's handmade, then why can't I make it? So I first started making soap for my own personal use. How did you and by the way, how you're just like going online and looking up like how
SPEAKER_05: to make soap?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there were there were tons of like forums, I took a soap making class, I'm buying all sorts of ingredients. I'm on YouTube learning how to make soap. I'm like reading books on soap making like I'm I'm literally going in it's it's insane.
SPEAKER_05: How do you and by the way, and what did you learn about how to make a bar of soap? Like, like, I'm assuming it was like, maybe glycerin or vegetable oil or like, I don't know what? Yeah, what would you buy to and like, melt it down on like your stove on your stovetop like in a pot and melt it basically in a pot with a Pyrex like a double boiler.
SPEAKER_01: You could you could make soap with glycerin, which was more moisturizing. Yeah. But I didn't think that it cleansed you as well. So the old fashioned way of making soap and this is the way that I typically made them was with lye, which is dangerous. And it can burn you and I've definitely got burnt. Yes, yes. And you had to handle it very carefully. And then soap goes through a curing process. So it could take you know, three months for your soap to cure or you can put it in the oven to cure that soap. And then I came up with this idea because I was I was really getting into like the creative component of making soap. So I was thinking like, okay, well, what are all the different flavors that I can make? Like I was making a strawberry bar and I put like dried strawberry in it. And I was like, Oh, I don't think that's really clean or sanitary because also, I'm not a chemist and I don't really know what I'm doing. And so when I'm coming up with these outlandish ideas, I don't have anyone to say like, Hey, that's actually not good for pH balance or this is going to like cause bacteria and mold to build. So I'm trying all these different soap recipes and I'm trying to make it look all cool and you know, have a gradient with the soap bar like creating ombre soap bars. Like I spent so much time making soap and honestly so much money.
SPEAKER_04:
SPEAKER_05: By the way, I have to confess it sometimes when I'm at Whole Foods, and I'm by that soap area, you know, where they've got like those beautiful translucent bars of soap like with things like flowers or whatever suspended in the soap. I kind of want to it looks delicious. Like part of me wants to just take a big bite out of it sometimes. Just be honest.
SPEAKER_01: They're beautiful and oftentimes they are all natural. And I mean, it's not going to taste good, but it won't kill you.
SPEAKER_05: Right. I mean, cause like we did Lush on the show. We did the whole episode on Lush and that stuff looks is beautiful too. Like that, you know, the sliced, you know, loaf of soap. So here's the thing.
SPEAKER_01: I was obsessed with, with Lush and Lush is really like, I actually don't think I've had this full circle moment, but in, in my soap making, I was like, I want to be lush. And I think that's what made me say like, I want to start a soap business actually, because I was obsessed. Like this is it. This is, this is my way out. I'm going to create a company. It's going to be called the soap bar. I love it.
SPEAKER_05: It's a creative soap bar. I'm surprised that that name didn't exist, that it wasn't taken.
SPEAKER_01: Nope. It didn't exist. And the concept was that all of the soaps would be named after drinks. Right. So I have a margarita bar that was like lemon and lime basically with sea salt on top. So I had all these really fun ideas and all these grand plans. And, and ultimately one day I was calling a supplier and I was looking for, you know, more pigments for my soaps because I was trying to get really funky and fancy with my colors. Yeah. Well, ombre colors are, yeah.
SPEAKER_05: I mean, that's very challenging. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. It takes a little work. It takes, it takes some time.
SPEAKER_05: Ombre design. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, wait, slow down, slow down. Do you want lip gloss pigments or do you want soap pigments? And I was like, uh, lipstick. I knew nothing about lipstick, but I couldn't believe that I could buy lipstick pigments. And that was it for me.
SPEAKER_05: Wait, you just call the supplier to ask for more pigments and they're like lipstick or soap and you're like, wait, lipstick.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. And it was a split second. It was so crazy because I paused knowing good and well, I was like looking for soap pigments. It was almost something that I felt like, like I shouldn't have been doing. Like I shouldn't have access to it. So when he said lipstick, I'm like, I can make lipstick. Oh, I'm done with this soap business.
SPEAKER_05: Can we come back in just a moment? How Melissa spends down all of her savings to launch a lipstick business and why after she's flat broke, she goes one step further and quits her day job. Stay with us. I'm Ross and you're listening to how I built this. Thank you so much for ecommerce, and more. If you've been sizing NetSuite up to make the switch, then you know this deal is unprecedented. No interest, no payments. Take advantage of this special financing offer at NetSuite.com slash built. That's NetSuite.com slash built to get the visibility and control you need to weather any storm. NetSuite.com slash built.
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SPEAKER_05: One more thing before we get back to the show. Please make sure to click the follow button on your podcast app so you never miss a new episode of the show. It's usually just at the top of the app and it's totally free.
SPEAKER_05: Hey, welcome back to How I Built This from NPR. I'm Guy Raz. So it's right around 2010 and Melissa had just had one of those life changing phone calls with a supplier who asked just kind of randomly if she was looking to buy products to make soap or lipstick. And in that moment, she decided lipstick. For one thing, lipstick was actually one of the few kinds of makeup she wore. At the time, I think that I was into reds, oranges and purples.
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah. And part of it, like part of the reason why when we launched the lip bar, we had such crazy colors is because I remember it being so difficult to find purple lipstick. Like I wanted purple so bad, but it's like only a couple of brands sold purple at the time and it was hard to find and it wasn't in stock. And I'm like, why is it so difficult for me to like have this bit of self-expression?
SPEAKER_05: And then I'm trying to think about like, well, what's the next step? Like then you're going to get a box of just powder, pigment powder for lipstick, but how do you make lipstick? Like what do you go to learn about how to make a lipstick? Did you like go online and type in lipstick recipes?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, pretty much. I probably Google how to make lipstick and there wasn't that much out there at the time, but I just started experimenting and I probably made, I don't know, a thousand batches of lipstick and none of them worked before I found one that was like it. First of all, what do you melt together to just get the, you know, the base for lipstick?
SPEAKER_01: Well, this is the way I've explained it. Like all lipstick is basically the same. It has its same like core ingredients. All of it has a wax, all of it has an oil and all of it has a pigment. Now depending on the waxes, depending on the oils and the other additions, that's going to impact the amount of color, that's going to impact the texture. If it's soft, if it's creamy, if it's moisturizing, if it's long lasting. Now all of those other things are optional.
SPEAKER_05: And then depending on the proportions, like that's going to affect the texture. Like when you apply it to your lips, how that is sort of spread onto the surface of your skin, right? Like a thinner coat or a thicker coat, things like that.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. So if you have too much oil, it's going to be soft and it's going to feel luxurious on your lips, but that lipstick probably is going to break. If you have too much wax, then it's not going to spread on her lips in a nice silky and creamy way. If you don't have enough pigment, then you can have this beautiful color, like the actual lipstick could be a bright pink, but when you actually put it on your lip, no color shows up. So it has to be a really delicate balance of pigment, oil and wax.
SPEAKER_05: It's like a really luxurious and expensive crayon.
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly what it is. And when you had all the ingredients and you started to melt stuff together, what did you
SPEAKER_05: pour it in? So like, I mean, can you just go online and get like lipstick molds? Yes and no.
SPEAKER_01: So most companies like the huge companies, the L'Oreal's of the world, they pretty much had a monopoly on the molds market. So there was, from my understanding, and this is in 2012, there were only a couple of suppliers in the US who made molds and the biggest one was Cavalla. And I was able to buy maybe four used molds and trust me, they were not cheap. I think I've spent like a whole paycheck on them.
SPEAKER_05: Like thousands of dollars? Yeah, the molds were maybe $1,500 a piece.
SPEAKER_01: What are they made out of? Like metal? Steel. So they were also very heavy. I bet. So yeah, I probably bought maybe six or $8,000 in molds and how I bought them and how I had access to them is I found a lab that was going out of business and I think they were in Louisiana and this guy was selling them and I found them on Craigslist, I think.
SPEAKER_05:
SPEAKER_05: I'm trying to imagine you in your apartment, like after working on the weekends, melting down all this stuff and experimenting with different colors and pouring it carefully into the mold and probably getting like lipstick material all over your kitchen, stressing out.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. It ruins grout. I've done it so many times where I've ruined stoves. I've lost security deposits. When people came to my house, like it was literally a lab. Like I definitely didn't have an apartment. I had a lab. And so, you know, the whole table would be spread out with all of my different ingredients that I kept in these airtight jars. And after I made, like, let's say I melted down this perfect lipstick and I poured it into the mold. I really wanted it to, the lipstick to cure. So I would put it in the freezer so people would come over to my house and want ice and I have no ice because my freezer is filled with lipstick molds. I'm like, oh, if you want ice, you're barking up the wrong tree. I don't have ice. I have lipstick. And you were presumably working like 60 hour weeks at Barclays.
SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01: And I was so committed. I started looking for suppliers in China for packaging. I started, like I would come home. I would maybe get home at, you know, 7, 8 p.m. And then I would stay up until 3.30. Wow. You know, working on the recipe, I have no idea how I functioned. And then I would get back up at 7 and go to work.
SPEAKER_05: And did you tell anybody about it? Were you like talking to friends? Like, I'm making lipstick. I'm just really excited about this thing.
SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely. They were all my first customers. Like every single time I made a product, like I never wanted to drink my own Kool-Aid. So I would invite people over to try on the product. Like people I met at work. Anyone who would try it, honestly. I remember taking lipstick to work actually. Like, hey, I made this. Can you try it out? And people were like, no, is it going to break me out? You made it. No, I don't. Does it? How do you know it works? And I'm like, I don't. That's why I want you to try it out.
SPEAKER_05: We don't test on animals. Just on Barclays employees. Just on humans. Yeah. We test on finance people. So in your kind of experimenting and teaching yourself again and again, and at what point did you land on a recipe that you thought, yep, because you said there's oil, there's wax and there's color, right? And so those are the basic ingredients, but you want to get a certain type of wax and a certain type of oil and a certain type of color, right, that speaks to you. So when did you know that you found that right formula? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: I mean, my parameters for me were, they were just crystal clear. I was like, it needs to be vegan. I don't want any animal products or any animal byproducts. And I want it to be as natural as possible without compromising the color. So I knew that I wanted to create wild and crazy colors, things that you really didn't see on the market at that time. And I want it to feel good. So what's something that feels really good and creamy? And I was like, shea butter. I'm going to put shea butter on the lipstick. And that was, that was it. Like I just started then looking for ways to source shea butter or coconut oil. And I think I tried a ton of different natural ingredients to add to that baseline formulation. But really, I found out that it was working when people started saying like, hey, can I get a little bit more of that? And that was it.
SPEAKER_05: And did any of your colleagues or colleagues or friends, were they assuming that this is something that you might like sell at a farmer's market on a weekend or like, was that what they assumed? Were they even asking you what you were going to do with this?
SPEAKER_01: I think I made it very clear that it was going to be a website. And I don't think anyone took me serious until I got a shipment of our packaging. And here I am with 30 boxes, 30 boxes. Like they're on the couch, they're on the floor, they're everywhere. And here I am just kind of waiting like, you remember that company I said I was going to start? Yeah, it's in my living room. And I think that's when they took me seriously.
SPEAKER_05: So you were presumably making the sticks in your kitchen and then you were putting them into the container? Into the lipstick tubes. The tubes. Yep, into the lipstick tubes. And you found a factory in China to make that packaging?
SPEAKER_01: I did. And the inspiration behind the packaging because our packaging really stands out. It's really cool. It's intricately designed. And the inspiration was a birdcage. Like I love like the old school Victorian bird cages that are just like super intricate. I don't like the idea of birds in cages. No, you don't like that. But I love the beautiful craftsmanship. And so I was like, I want it to kind of look like that. I want something that doesn't look like a traditional tube because I'm building a non-traditional company. And I had been asking a lot of friends like, you know, what do you think about makeup? And oftentimes, especially for black women, what I found was they felt like beauty wasn't for them.
SPEAKER_05: That it was made for not for their skin or their complexion?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely. That it wasn't for their complexion. That marketing didn't cater to them unless they were putting something in a brown bottle. And then they're like, hey, this is for black people. So here I am friends with a lot of people who are now, for the first time in their lives, they have disposable income because we were all fresh out of college basically and making a pretty solid salary. And I was just like, there's a huge gap in terms of like what my generation wants and what's readily available on the market.
SPEAKER_05: I mean, you look at your website today and clearly your products and your brand, they're designed for every kind of person, every skin tone, every racial and ethnic background and group. When you were initially coming up with the idea, were you saying, you know, to your friends who you were kind of asking for feedback, were you sort of saying, look, no one is serving us. We are consumers and we spend a lot of money on fashion and beauty and we don't feel like products are being made for us. And so I want to make products for us. Was that how you thought about it initially?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the goal was to create a brand where black women could be the default. So we create products, like you said, for every single skin tone. But when we first launched in 2012, I was just like, I don't want black and brown women to feel like they have to fit in to the lip bar. I want them to know that they are the lip bar and they're not the default anywhere else and my brand is going to be where that starts.
SPEAKER_05: Okay, so you come up with a really cool packaging design that looks kind of like a bird cage and you've got this factory in China that can make the boxes. Do you remember how many packages, like lipstick dispensers, you had to order?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the minimum order quantity was 12,000 units. Wow, you had 12,000 units stacked up in boxes in your kitchen.
SPEAKER_05: And you had to pack each one by hand. You had to take the actual lipstick and pack it in.
SPEAKER_01: Every single one. So I hand poured it into the mold and my mold held, I want to say, one held 48 units and one held 72 units. So this is going to take a while to do. This is going to take a couple of weeks. Yeah, this is serious. But I think I launched with 12 shades and the goal would be to sell all of this in a
SPEAKER_01: year. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: And with the soap bar, you were going to name each soap like the Margarita or the Lime Ricky or the Gin and Tonic. Were you going to do that with the lipsticks too?
SPEAKER_01: I did. And so we have Cosmo, you know, that was one of our colors and Gin and Tonic is still one of our colors actually. But we had things like Fuzzy Navel and all these like crazy names. Sour Apple Martini, it was literally a green lipstick. Fuzzy Navel, I think, was like a light orange, like coral lipstick. And because it had that bar tie in, my concept was that whenever you bought a lipstick, you actually also got a recipe card for that drink. By the way, do you remember, I mean, you must have, I'm assuming you got 12,000 these tubes,
SPEAKER_05: right, the packaging for the lipstick. You had to spend a lot of your money on this. Was any part of you nervous about doing that?
SPEAKER_01: I spent not even just like a lot of money. I think I spent all of my money, guys. I spent my entire savings because the thing that I didn't take into consideration was you buy it, but then you also have to get it here. So I learned a whole new skill set about like ocean freight and like dutefs and tariffs and taxes and all that jazz. So I think buying the units and then actually getting them to my Brooklyn apartment may have cost me $13,000.
SPEAKER_05: I mean, that's a lot of cash.
SPEAKER_01: And then on top of that, I have to buy all the ingredients. I'm planning a launch party. I have to have pictures taken. So the startup costs for the business was probably around $30,000.
SPEAKER_05: And so as you were getting ready to launch, this is still pretty much you doing everything. I mean, were you turning to friends for help at all?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. My friends ended up being my founding team because I didn't know anything. I didn't know any better. So Roscoe, who's our creative director, she moved to New York. She moved to New York three weeks before we launched. And some of my other friends in finance, I'm like, can you do our sales? Can you do our branding? Can you do a... Like I had a team of six people. None of us were making any money.
SPEAKER_05: And Roscoe was somebody you knew from high school. She's a friend from high school.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Roscoe had been one of my really good friends from high school. We both went to cast together.
SPEAKER_05: And you basically said, hey, Roscoe, I think her last name is Spears, right?
SPEAKER_01: So she wanted to start a career in fashion. So New York was attractive to her anyway. And all of my friends, they just kind of were like, what's the lip bar? I told them. And then they were like, okay, cool. And so now here we are, we have a business. And so I remember at our launch party, the very first person who showed up, we weren't even finished setting up yet. She came like 30 minutes early. It was a beauty editor from Teen Vogue. And I think we were all stunned, like, wait, people care. People are listening. And so it was a really fun event. And we got a lot of people to come, which was really interesting because we didn't really have a big budget and we didn't really know anyone in New York City. And we had gotten the attention of some beauty editors. So that was super cool. And we were so proud. At a certain point, you were going to have to make the decision of whether to quit your
SPEAKER_05: job. Now, I should make the caveat here that you were one of the biggest advantages I think you had was that you were young. Yeah. That if it didn't work out, you know, you could maybe go back to finance or something like that. But it sounds like you kind of just got to a point where you're like, yep, I'm ready. I'm going to quit my job and do this. And I think it happened like in 2013. Were you nervous at all about about quitting this job in finance?
SPEAKER_01: No, I wasn't nervous. I think you're absolutely right. I think one of the magical things about being a first time founder, especially in an industry that you don't know anything about, you're completely naive and you think that everything is going to work. Like, I didn't have a plan, but I knew that it was going to work somehow. And our first year in business, we launched in 2012, I think we made $26,000.
SPEAKER_05: And that was mostly from friends and family who would be told that.
SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely. But that $26,000, even though it's not a ton of money, I was so proud to make that $26,000. I couldn't believe it. I was like, wait, what? I think my job at Barclays, I think I had been making like $70,000 or something at that time. And so to make essentially a quarter of my salary, I was like, this is a thing.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah. All right. So you quit Barclays. And does anybody in your... Your mom, she had to work really hard to make a living to support you. And then you go off to college and I'm sure so many people are so proud of you. And you had relatives in Detroit who were like, oh my gosh, she's... If I'm your mom, I'm like, my daughter's at Barclays. She's working on Wall Street. I'm so proud. And then you call me and you say, mom, I'm quitting. I'm starting a lipstick company. What did people in your family say?
SPEAKER_01: Oh, they thought I was crazy. My mom, she was like, what? And then I remember her literally explicitly saying, who's going to pay your bills? And I was like, well, I'm going to pay my bills. I think I saved up. I tried to save up what I thought would be a year's worth of my expenses. I ran out in like six months, but my family thought I was crazy when I quit. And my feeling was just like, look, I am more comfortable with the idea of failure than I am with regret. And that's what made me say I can do it.
SPEAKER_05: And now you are the CEO of the lip bar. I'm assuming you have no money, right? How are you financing this business? Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01: We're literally dead broke. Me and Roscoe ended up Airbnb-ing her bedroom and she moved into my room so that we could cover our expenses. If the first year we made $26,000, then I think the next year we may have made $56,000, which is great. We're doubling.
SPEAKER_05: Yep, that's growth.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're growing. But ultimately, we're not really making money. We're not really profitable.
SPEAKER_05: And Roscoe was doing freelance work on the side. She's doing freelance work sometimes and I'm full time.
SPEAKER_01: And I say full time with air quotes because it's not like I had any benefits or a salary, but I'm giving this my full attention. So I was still making the products in my kitchen. I was focusing on innovation. I'm making new colors and I'm thinking of new marketing ideas because Roscoe is handling the creative in terms of our photo shoots. But basically, I'm handling every single thing else because my first team of friends, that first team had all fizzled out probably within the first, I don't know, nine months. So yeah, I'm on social media. I'm documenting the process of me making lipstick and people are really intrigued by that. People can't believe that I'm actually making lipstick in my kitchen.
SPEAKER_05: So you are grinding away. Roscoe's grinding away. You're trying to get this off the ground. You're doing this in New York and I guess around 2013, maybe 2014, you decide to move it to Detroit, like to go back to where you grew up. Why? I mean, New York is the global center of fashion, one of the global centers of fashion. Certainly, the center of the fashion industry in the US, the big makeup brands I think are headquartered there. So why did you decide to leave New York?
SPEAKER_01: Well, number one, I was running out of money. And I had been thinking about it like, should I stay in New York? We had already made a lot of connections with beauty editors. We had been getting press. So I felt like we made a mark and we could still grow without being there. And then on top of that, I saw the narrative of Detroit changing.
SPEAKER_05: Around 2013.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. So, in 2012, when I first started the company, it was all about Detroit and Detroit's ruins. And in 2014, the narrative was changing. Shinola had just come to Detroit and people were investing in Detroit and downtown was becoming cool again. And I was like, wait- And bakeries and vegan restaurants and right here.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: So maybe it's time for me to go home to build this business and number one, I can be a part of this Renaissance. I can make sure that people who look like me are a part of this Renaissance because I had been experiencing firsthand what gentrification looks like because I was living in Brooklyn. I never thought that Detroit really deserved the bad reputation that it had gotten. And I wanted to be a part of this new thing and to meet the movers and shakers that were making it happen. So I was excited for the city. I just wanted to make sure that Black people were a part of the resurgence.
SPEAKER_05: When we come back in just a moment, how Melissa and Roscoe spread the word about the Lip Bar, first on a nationwide tour in a retrofitted airport shuttle bus, and then with an appearance on Shark Tank, which does not go particularly well. Stay with us. I'm Guy Raz and you're listening to How I Built This.
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SPEAKER_05: Hey, welcome back to How I Built This. I'm Guy Raz. So it's around 2014 and Melissa Butler has left New York and moved the business to her hometown of Detroit. And she knows that if women could just try her lipstick, could just see the colors, they love it.
SPEAKER_01: So I knew that I wanted to be in retail, but I knew that we also weren't ready. So I decided that in order to get our products in front of customers, that we would instead of trying to figure out what counter can we get behind, how do we bring the counter to our customers? And so we built the lip bar truck, which was what we deemed the most glamorous beauty experience on wheels. And we went on a tour.
SPEAKER_05: You built like a truck that was decorated with your logo full of like a like like an ice cream truck.
SPEAKER_01: So my ex boyfriend built party buses like from his bare hands. Wow. It's basically like a shuttle bus. So you know, he took out the old funky seats and, you know, built a countertop like wrapped around the entire bus, built a cash register in the back, because the goal was always we're going to build this truck and then we're going to go to different cities and park on the street. But then when I what I learned is that you're supposed to have a permit. And this is like the major plot twist. But the responsible part of me said, OK, why don't we find stores that we can park in front of and partner with? Then we could do it without the permit. So I started finding partners in all these different cities that I wanted to go to. And our most impressive partnership is that we got Urban Outfitters to agree. And this is the Urban Outfitters in D.C. to agree to partner with us. And they brought in like water and drinks and they allowed us to park in front and they kind of rolled a red carpet so that it was clearly like a part of Urban Outfitters for the day.
SPEAKER_05: The one in the one in Georgetown. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. So we were able to open up the side doors and we put a TV right there so that if people are just walking by, they can kind of see our messages like flashing in display. So people would naturally stop because they're like, this truck looks cool. So many people thought that it was like drinks naturally. So they would come up. Guys would come up and say, what do you got in there? You got beer? And we're like, no, we have lipstick. Come on up. Bring your wife. And then like oftentimes the woman would come up because she was so intrigued. She's like, you have lipstick on there? And she would come up and the whole truck was mirrors and she would come on and she would try on the product. And you know, she would more often than not love the product and make a purchase. And how long did this tour last?
SPEAKER_01: We went on two different tours. And I want to say the first one, which was the largest one, maybe six weeks.
SPEAKER_05: Wow. Were you able to finance the trip through sales?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So the first tour was wonderful and that inspired us to go on a second tour. And that's when we went on this like black college tour. So we went back to my alma mater and to drive from Detroit to Florida is crazy and a truck that's not so great. And so a guy on the way back from this like black college tour that we did and we actually made a lot of money and we were really excited about it. The truck started breaking down. Like I remember we were maybe four hours away and we just kind of stopped the truck and we parked it and we were like, okay, maybe she just needs a rest. Okay, maybe if we just give her some time off. And I think we just let it sit for an hour and then she took us home and that was the last time we really drove it. But yeah, I'm so emotional about the truck so I can't get rid of it.
SPEAKER_05: Meantime, you still need to get some visibility. And so you decide to do something that is really smart but also really risky, which is to apply to be on Shark Tank. Which is a great idea, but lots of people apply to Shark Tank. So how did it happen that they picked you? Do you know?
SPEAKER_01: Well, I think Shark Tank picked us because we were fun and we were being ourselves. So we submitted a video where we were talking about the product, but also we were hula hooping.
SPEAKER_07: So it was kind of gimmicky but enough to make you pay attention to what we were saying.
SPEAKER_05: And they want people who are going to be good on television and fun. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: Welcome to the Shark Tank.
SPEAKER_05: We had Jamie Siminoff, founder of Ring, on the show. He described his experience that it was really terrifying because you don't meet them until you actually walk out and pitch your product.
SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm Alyssa Butler. And I'm Roscoe Spears. And we live in Brooklyn, New York. We were kind of nervous and they were so cruel to us. Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_07: This is a new innovation. I can see a massive market share in the clown market.
SPEAKER_01: They told Roscoe that she looked dead. That she looked dead? Because of the color of her lipstick. So Roscoe, aren't you worried if you walked into a bar with that color lip, somebody tried
SPEAKER_06: to resuscitate you?
SPEAKER_01: What you end up seeing is probably seven or eight minutes, but we were recording for maybe an hour. So I'm explaining to them that the industry is changing and that the bigger companies are slow to change. And we're the smaller company and we're fast to change. And that's our strength. And they were like, well, if the big companies wanted to do it, they just would and they would crush you like the colorful cockroaches you are, is exactly what they said.
SPEAKER_07: And they would crush you like the colorful cockroaches you are. You only have so many minutes on earth. Don't waste them trying to sell lipstick. I'm out.
SPEAKER_05: Wow. You know, there's a shtick there, that kind of that mean kind of shtick. And that's part of what they do. But I think Kevin O'Leary said, hey, the chances that this business will succeed are zero, practically zero.
SPEAKER_01: And what they didn't show on air is that when he said, like, don't waste your time trying to sell lipstick, they then went into this whole internal debate on what we actually should be doing. And they were like, listen, you're beautiful girls. Your dresses are nice. Why don't you go into the fashion business? Which is so offensive. And I had been so prepared to talk numbers because like, here I am, like a former finance girl and like, I'm ready to talk business. And they didn't, I think the most disappointing thing for us wasn't that they called us colorful cockroaches. Like I actually didn't even care about that statement at the time. I think that it was more offensive that they did not even consider us as business women. But it sounds like, it sounds like even though you felt like they were not so kind, that
SPEAKER_05: it forced you to refine the story you were telling about Lip Bar, about the Lip Bar.
SPEAKER_01: It did. And it forced me to start thinking more so about how we market the company. Mark Cuban was really adamant around me being at the forefront of the brand. He was like, look, your story is really cool. You need to step into, into your brand. You need to be your storyteller. At this time, I was not at the forefront of the business. I didn't want Melissa Butler to be the Lip Bar. I wanted the Lip Bar to be the Lip Bar and for Melissa Butler to be Melissa Butler. And so over time I did realize that that was hurting the company with me not being at the forefront because today people are looking for brands that are going to be more transparent and they want to know who's behind the business.
SPEAKER_05: Who is a person? Yeah. Yeah. All right. So you come back to, you come back to Detroit and eventually this Shark Tank episode airs because I think they end up airing like six or seven months after they're actually filmed.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. And we had no idea. They don't really warn you. They don't tell you, right? We found out maybe 10 days in advance.
SPEAKER_05: And even though you got kind of pilloried by them, that must have helped your visibility.
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's crazy. Oh, our website crashed that night. I want to say we had like 40,000 hits to the website within just a couple of minutes. Wow. We had all this stuff on like back order. We couldn't like maintain the orders. I was still shipping the orders, I think. And Shark Tank really like fast tracked us into like hiring people. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: By the way, you were still, this is just being financed entirely through cashflow. You have not raised any money or anything. You're hiring people and paying them probably a small salary and offering them some equity.
SPEAKER_01: Really just paying them a small salary. And we're hiring entry-level people. Right. Basically like hourly workers to just help us ship the orders. And we had just started transitioning into getting the products manufactured. So that was my goal. Like, okay, well, Melissa, you need to get your product manufactured so that you can then launch into retail. And then it was time. I was like, I'm going to find a retailer and Target, it was our goal. Target was your goal.
SPEAKER_05: Target was the only people we pitched. And now Target, everybody wants to be in Target, right? I mean, that's like the top place to get into. They get pitched a million times a day. Did you even have any connections? Like how did you know to call?
SPEAKER_01: I had no connections. So I couldn't call anyone. But I'm going to just start reaching out to the buyers. And so I went on LinkedIn and I started searching for Target buyers, like color cosmetics buyers. I was searching everything. I love that. Beauty buyer, color cosmetics buyer, Target buyer. And I think I was emailing like 12 different people. So this is probably an eight month process of me stalking people at Target.
SPEAKER_05: Wow. And so after eight months of stalking people, you eventually do connect with a Target buyer, I think a makeup buyer. Yes. And I'm curious, like what did you say in your email to her? Because I mean, I'm sure that this buyer was getting lots of emails and you had to stand out. So what did you write?
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I mean, I threw the whole kitchen sink in. I told her a little bit about the story and about our truck and how cool we are and how, you know, I think we had maybe 40,000 followers on social media or something. I told her that everything was vegan and cruelty free. I talked about how cool our packaging was. But I think the real thing that stood out was that I talked more than anything about what we could do for Target instead of what Target could do for us. I'm like my customer shopping there and she's not shopping there for makeup. And it's because you don't have me basically. And so on my second follow up, she came back and was like, oh, wait, your packaging actually is really cool. Can you send me some samples? And I probably screamed. I don't know. I screamed. And then I probably took a lap around my house because that's what I do and I'm really excited. And then we had a call and she was like, look, I think that your brand is really cool, but also I know that your brand is really small and like maybe too small for Target. I don't know. And she was like, but I'm willing to take a chance and allow you to drop shit on Target.com. Like do you want to launch on Target.com? I'm like, absolutely. And so what we did was we launched a brand new color and we blasted it to our audience, but you couldn't get it on our website. You could only get it on Target.com.
SPEAKER_05: But how did you, I mean, there's thousands, tens of thousands of products on Target.com. How did you gain visibility on the website initially?
SPEAKER_01: So the thing about launching in a retailer is it's not their job to sell your product. It's your job to sell your product. So we literally pushed all of our, like our emails, our social media followers, all our friends and family. It was like a brand new launch. Like, Oh my God, we're in Target. We were so excited. We, we shared it with our community in a way where it was a win for all of us. Like, can you believe that the Lit Bar is now on Target.com and they bought that color and it sold out actually. And she was like, okay, I want to introduce you to the store buyer essentially. And we pitched it and we were launching in Target nine months later. Wow.
SPEAKER_05: You know, I think a lot of people will walk into a Target and think, Oh, all the products here, the people who make them are probably multimillionaires, but it's actually not that simple because there's lots of products at Target and you got to sell them. But I have to imagine that being on the shelves at Target meant that you started to generate some revenue that, that started to make your business sustainable.
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. So we launched and we went into 44 stores. That was the test that was offered. We didn't have a marketing budget, but we had a publicist. We hired a publicist and the reality is the makeup aisle didn't really have any small businesses. So the fact that we have shelf space in Target as this really small brand was like an anomaly. So we had this huge PR campaign. You know, a lot of people started talking about it, Refinery29 talked about it, Teen Vogue talked about it. And we, we had like the number one selling lipstick for the first month of our launch with no marketing budget. And Target was like, Whoa, we weren't expecting this of this brand. And so we grew very quickly. So we went from 40 stores to, I think 144 stores. And then we went into like 400 stores and now we're in about 500 stores about to expand again.
SPEAKER_05: Wow. You, I think in 2018, for the first time you brought in some outside funding. You got an outside investment. Did you ever, I mean, think about pitching to VCs and to venture, you know, to investors or did that investment kind of, do they kind of come to you and say, Hey, we want to, we want to invest.
SPEAKER_01: Well, it's a mixture of both. So now we're in Target stores, right? And we're growing in Target and, you know, we need it money. We need it money for We need to finance the business. Yeah, because this is inventory and the beauty industry is not necessarily replenishable. So the average woman, it may take her eight months to even use her favorite lipstick.
SPEAKER_01: And I remember having calls with investors and pitching people and they would all say like, Melissa, you're so impressive. Like you're such an impressive founder, but we're not gonna, we're not gonna invest. The reality is guy, black women are starting businesses faster than any other group of people in this country, but we're not getting funding. And also because we're not getting funding, we can't really grow our ideas. So if we really want to like reduce the wealth gap in this country, we're going to have to start giving opportunities to women who look like me.
SPEAKER_05: Tristan Walker was on the show, founder of Walker and company Bevel is his best, best known product, and he pointed out on the show that if you look at the beauty industry and consumers by far, far and away on a proportional basis, black consumers spend more money on beauty products than any other group in the United States. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01: It's been reported that we spend nine times anyone else on beauty. But meanwhile, you know, black businesses, black beauty businesses aren't well funded. So for a smaller company, it's like we have to fight tooth and nail to get a little funding. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah. And I should say you were able to finally get some money from a fund that was started by the beauty entrepreneur, Richelieu Dennis, which is a fund I think he started for black women founders in 2018. And then in 2019, you decided to actually open a brick and mortar store in Detroit, which is I think really close to the Shinola store, right? Yeah, we're right behind the Shinola store.
SPEAKER_01: We're basically in their alley. And I had never even wanted a store just because like, no, I don't want to maintain a store or think about a store. We were already in Target. But the thing about Detroit is even with its resurgence, there's still very little within the city limits. So you know, I felt like this was my opportunity to really like, again, be a part of that Renaissance and really give people the opportunity to shop high quality makeup. And it really warmed my heart guy because, you know, we open in the dead of winter. We opened on our on our birthday, essentially. And we open to a line of maybe 200 people in the in the dead of winter, like it's freezing, like because people were just so excited about that, about this, this whole force.
SPEAKER_01: So excited. This is a city where there frankly isn't a lot of opportunity. And so typically, people have to leave to build something. You know, and I am a person who left but then I came back. And they've they've shown me so much love. Like the lip bar has grown since we've come back. Like we 5x the business since I've moved back to Detroit.
SPEAKER_05: Of course, then 2020 happens. COVID shut down. The retail business really gets hit. Parts of the beauty industry do okay. But there is a slowdown. Did you guys see a pretty significant slowdown? You know, once COVID became a reality in March and April?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what's crazy is like February was such a good month for us. February was unprecedented. But you know, I think it was just preparing us for what was next. You know, people always talk about the lipstick effect, which is this idea that even in an economic recession or even a depression, women will still rely on those small novelties that make them feel good. But you typically only put on makeup when you're leaving the house. And no one was leaving. And we were really we were really concerned if I'm going to be just completely honest, I was like, I don't know how we're gonna survive this business. The goal and the approach was really to just do the things that we had always done, which is like, just continuously connect with our customers and meet them where they are. Our relationship with our customer is so strong because we actually are our customer. So you know, I'm not married. I'm on online dates right now. And so I'm looking, you know, how do I update my profile? How do I look cute for my FaceTime date? How do I instill confidence to my team? And for me, that was like very easily lip color. I was like, by putting on this lip color, like, I look a little bit more alive. I look more confident. I look like I'm ready for the day. And we pivoted our messaging and then very quickly ourselves rebounded. So while March was a tough month, April was, we had grown back to like our norm. And then June with the whole Black Lives Matter and this, this more apparent need to support small businesses and particularly small black owned businesses. We had our best month ever. Wow.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of growing awareness and desire among many people who are watching the and taking part in the protests against racial injustice to support black businesses. And a lot of black entrepreneurs we've had on the show have talked about those months as being, they were just overwhelmed with what happened to their businesses and the attention that they received during that time. Is that continued for you? Has it been sustained?
SPEAKER_01: No. Our sales have sustained, but that level of support, no. I think that, I mean, for me, I didn't expect it to. So I remember when it was happening, I call an all hands meeting with my team and I said, look, we're getting flooded right now. And it's our goal and it's our job to make sure that these aren't charity dollars. And that's the thing, like, we don't, as a black business owner, I don't want you to support my business. I want you to shop my products because you think that this is great. Exactly. Because we make it easy for you to understand what products work for your complexion, not because you feel bad about something. And like our goal is to have lifetime value, you know, with our customer and have this more than transactional relationship with our customer. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: And I mean, you guys have branched out into all kinds of makeup, like you do eyeshadow and foundation and concealer and even like the lipstick colors that you're doing now, I guess you're offering, I guess you'd say like more sort of mainstream colors as well.
SPEAKER_01: So over time we've, I mean, we've of course evolved, you know, when we first launched, we were really just trying to make a statement and we had to introduce some practicality. So now we have, you know, we have everything, we have like over 16 nudes, because again, we're really driving that whole like beauty for every single complexion. And we have the best reds. Like Michelle Obama just wore our red, which is our best seller in the whole company. Yeah, it's crazy. But we, we stay true to who we are. We still have a black lipstick. We still have a blue lipstick. We have tons of purple. So it's a balance between like, how do we leave something for people to get creative or, you know, reimagine themselves even if it's just for one night.
SPEAKER_05: So let's say you're sort of, I mean, you are obviously growing and growing fast and your brand awareness is growing really fast. Do you think, I mean, can you imagine, do you think you can grow to, you know, at scale to become a huge brand independently? Or do you think eventually like other cosmetics brands like Benefit or, you know, other brands that were eventually became huge that you would have to be purchased or partnered, you know, with a bigger company, a L'Oreal or Revlon or LVMH or, you know, one of these huge multinationals. Do you think that, I mean, could you see a world where you would partner or you would, you know, become part of their portfolio if it meant that you would become like, you know, ubiquitous everywhere around the world in airports and duty-free shops and so on?
SPEAKER_01: Yeah. I mean, I think if we had the opportunity to really become like this world renowned brand, then I think that that would be the perfect way to like submit the legacy and all of the hard work that myself and my team has been doing over the last eight years because having all of these high and low moments, you know, they've come at the expense of lots of things. There have been times where I've been, you know, a bad sister or a bad friend or a bad girlfriend or a bad daughter because I've been sacrificing for the business. So I think the ultimate way to say this was worth it is having this brand that really makes makeup more inclusive and makes makeup easier and really has this like landmark and this leaves its mark on the beauty industry.
SPEAKER_05: When you think of your journey, Melissa, how much of your success do you think has to do with the hard work that you put in and your intelligence and how much do you think is because you just, you got lucky at times?
SPEAKER_01: And of course I know this question is coming, but it's a really tough question. I think earlier on it was all hard work and I think that hard work is still, you know, I'm still receiving the fruits of that labor and nowadays I'm thinking it's luck. So I don't think any anyone can fully take credit. I think that sometimes the universe is just in alignment and right now I really feel good.
SPEAKER_05: That's Melissa Butler, founder and CEO of The Lip Bar. And by the way, after nearly a decade in the beauty business, Melissa says when it comes to putting on her own makeup. Yes, I'm a beauty founder, but no, I don't know how to do makeup.
SPEAKER_01: And people who I would meet, they would say, you shouldn't say that. And I'm like, why? It's true. I don't know how to do my makeup. And like, and I've tried to do a YouTube video and I came out looking like a fool. Like I looked at, I looked nothing like that tutorial. Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show this week.
SPEAKER_05: Please make sure to click the follow button on your podcast app. It's usually a plus right at the top, so you never miss a new episode of the show and it's totally free. This episode was produced by James Delahusi with music composed by Ramtin Erebluy. It was edited by Neva Grant with research help from Dareth Gales. Our production staff also includes JC Howard, Casey Herman, Kerry Thompson, Sam Paulson, Liz Metzger, Alex Chung, Elaine Coates, John Isabella, Chris Mussini, and Carla Estevez. I'm Guy Raz and you've been listening to How I Built This. Hey Prime members, you can listen to How I Built This early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. If you want to show your support for our show, be sure to get your How I Built This merch and gear at wonderyshop.com. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery's podcast American Scandal.
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