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SPEAKER_06: Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck. And guess what? Jerry's here too. And I'll tell you what, Jerry will be the one who murdered us if we ever turn up dead in a lounge, ballroom, conservatory. And she'll probably have used a lead pipe because Jerry carries a lead pipe with her at all times.
SPEAKER_09: And her nickname is Miss Scarlet.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, she makes us call her Miss Scarlet.
SPEAKER_09: I have to say, this feels like a Chuck pic through and through, but it was your pic.
SPEAKER_09: So I have to ask right away if you are a Clueist historically.
Oh, historically, yes. It's one of my favorite games of all time.
SPEAKER_09: Oh, great. Me too. All right, well, we're going to have fun talking about this then. Man, I love Clue.
SPEAKER_06:
As a matter of fact, I went on eBay and made a lowball offer on the complete 1972 edition of Clue, which is the one I grew up with. I was like, I guess I had the 86 and I looked, I was like, nope, that's not it. Went a little further back, 1972. I just started drooling from nostalgia.
SPEAKER_09:
Yeah, it's the 72. If you're in our age bracket, the 72 version is a very, very nostalgic sort of like, it's just very evocative.
It brings out smells in your brain and like fights your parents are having in the other room and like cartoons that are on.
SPEAKER_09: It's like, it hits hard.
I was very disappointed because I went to find out. I was like, man, who are those models now who took that picture?
I was really curious. Yeah.
And I found a thing on Medium that I didn't, it's a spoof, right? Yes. Yeah, I was like, oh my God, Andy Levovitz took that picture?
SPEAKER_06:
SPEAKER_09: Yeah, once you start reading it, though, I was like, wait a minute. I was so disappointed because I even went to Reddit and I don't know, I couldn't find out any information on who those people were or how that went down.
SPEAKER_09: I mean, it's just such an arcane thing to spoof.
SPEAKER_06: It was called an oral history of the photo shoot for the 1972 cover of Clue. How excited were you when you read that title?
SPEAKER_06:
Yeah, I was like, this is some good, this is good treasure right here. Yeah. And then I thought, wow, Andy Levovitz like took that picture now. So whoever wrote that, if you're out there, you got us both.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and shame on you.
SPEAKER_06: So we're talking about Clue, the game, if you're in the UK and you're like, what is this clue they're talking about? Allow us to also call it Cluedo.
Clue is way better a name for it, but Cluedo is what it's called basically outside of North America.
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: And the reason that you would qualify outside of North America is because it's a big hit all over the country. It's translated into Spanish, Swiss. Well, you know, those two among other languages.
SPEAKER_09: I think we should go back in time. It's one of the great games of all time and talk a little bit about the invention of Clue because it's a pretty good story.
SPEAKER_09:
There was a guy named Anthony Pratt, Anthony E. Pratt, not to be confused with the other Anthony Pratt.
SPEAKER_06: Why does that name sound familiar?
SPEAKER_09:
I don't know. You may be thinking Chris Pratt?
I think Anthony Pratt's a politician of some kind. Okay, that might be it.
SPEAKER_06:
No, I know who Chris Pratt is. Oh, I don't know.
SPEAKER_09: Anthony E. Pratt was born in Birmingham, near Birmingham in 1903, England that is. And as a, he was a high school dropout, professional piano player. And during World War I when he was but a young teen, the story goes that he and his friends would sit around and play what he called a stupid game called murder where guests crept up on each other in corridors and the victim would shriek and fall on the floor.
SPEAKER_08:
SPEAKER_09:
SPEAKER_09:
And apparently post high school years was a traveling piano player that would play at these sort of ritzy country hotels where guests in the hotel would put this on at like, you know, murder mystery night.
SPEAKER_09:
And it was a thing. It's still a thing, murder mystery night. And it's, you know, it's sort of one of my favorite kinds of books and movies like the knives out kind of thing. And he and his friends were doing this as teenagers.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah. And apparently didn't like that. Like you said, he didn't like the game murder, but he did like the ones they put on at hotels. He didn't like Agatha Christie, which is kind of surprising because if his game can be compared to anybody's books, it's Agatha Christie's for sure. And so that was the interwar period. During World War II, 1943 found him working as a law clerk. He also worked in a munitions factory as well. And because there were blackouts at night because the UK was getting bombed on the regular, you didn't, you couldn't go out. There's nothing to do. People didn't come over. You didn't do anything. You just hung out with your family. And luckily he and his wife had a gaming streak, I guess, with, with, in common. Because if you think about it, it's very, it's very rare to sit down and come up with a board game even in that situation. Like it just takes a certain person and you put Elva and Anthony Pratt together in blackout conditions in 1943, and they're going to come up with clue.
SPEAKER_09:
Yeah. Originally they called it murder still this time with an exclamation point, almost an apostrophe.
It was called murder. And he thought, and they thought rather, I think she designed some of the artwork and stuff in the original rooms and things like that.
And worked on the gameplay together. But he knew that like, you can sell board games because he actually had a friend named Jeffrey bull who sold the game to waddington's games of London.
So he was like, you know, we can actually sell this thing.
SPEAKER_09: Like we're not just creating a fun game for our family. And that first initial game had 10 characters. Yeah. Uh, one was randomly chosen as the victim, which is a little different than the clue that we know and love. Yeah. And there were nine weapons. The ones that were different that I think are still kind of fun are a bomb.
SPEAKER_09: That would just be a fun little game piece. I think. Sure. Like a classic cartoon, like round fused bomb, a hypodermic syringe, kind of dark, a poison bottle, which is pretty obvious for a murder mystery.
And then an Irish chalet, which is would be really kind of cool to have today. If you don't know what that is, it was, it sort of looks like a cane.
And later you could function it as a cane, but what it really was was early Irish stick fighting.
It's a cudgel and it, you know, it's like a cane with a larger ball on the end where your hand would be. Yeah. The business end.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah. So just like, uh, if you look at the ball, it's in Celtic's logo that, that cane that that little Celtic has is in fact a chalet.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Nice, nice description of that Chuck. Way to go.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah. I didn't know stick fighting was a thing. I kind of went down a rabbit hole and apparently it was a, it was a stick to fight with it first, but then later on it was just like, oh no, this is just my cane.
Whack whack.
SPEAKER_06: No, gotcha.
SPEAKER_09: That kind of thing.
SPEAKER_06: So, um, something I thought was pretty sweet was that, um, the prats managed to get in a meeting with, um, the people at Waddington's thanks to, uh, their friend, the bulls, Jeffrey bull and his wife. And the bulls went with them to that meeting and they all sat down and played this game murder together. And basically on the spot, Waddington's is like, we'll take it. Um, in 1945, they, they came up with an agreement to produce the game. Um, Anthony Pratt got a patent for it in 1947, but again, because the UK was getting bombed on the regular during world war II, um, and there was a war going on. It was kind of difficult to come by some of the materials needed. So it kind of got its start in fits and starts really kind of beginning around 1949.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah. Uh, they named it Cluedo, like you said, spelled like clue with D O at the end. Um, that is Latin for I play. And there's also a game called Ludo, uh, in Britain. It's like a parcheesy game. So I guess they thought it had some just name appeal or whatever, I guess would be my guess. Cause Cluedo doesn't make any sense.
SPEAKER_06:
Not in North America. No.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah. Well, I mean, but was it even a word there?
SPEAKER_06: No, it was a made up word.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah. Let's just say it didn't make sense then either. So, um, that was waddington's take on it and Parker brothers is like, that's lame. Waddington's you're our, our partner in the UK, but we're going to name it clue and they produced a slightly different version. I think for example, um, in Cluedo in the original Cluedo, Mr. Green here in the United States was called Reverend green there. Just a little, little differences like that, that you would pick up on depending on whether you lived in the United States or Great Britain. Um, and then, uh, I think the, the actual house that it's modeled on also, um, distinguished the two games in the UK version. Supposedly it was inspired by a mansion in Sussex called Tudor close and still around. You can see pictures of Tudor close. But one of the things that supports that idea is that in 1937, um, it was renovated to include a billiards room in a ballroom. And then for the American version, um, it was supposedly inspired by the, the house of George Parker founder of Parker brothers games who had, um, an estate that he bought in New Hampshire in 1925.
SPEAKER_06: And it bore some resemblance to it as well. That house is still around too.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah. But I think you and I agree that there is only one clue house and that is the one on the cover of the 1972 American board game edition. Absolutely true.
SPEAKER_09: That's the house. I'm not sure where it is because a medium tricked me.
Still salty about that. So in 1953, Pratt sold his overseas sales rights, uh, for 5,000 pounds, which would be a hundred, a little over 116,000 pounds today.
Good chunk of change. Um, although, uh, he would complain and I think has a very good point that like, Hey, they didn't tell me they were already selling it over there.
That's a great point.
SPEAKER_09: And that it was super popular. So it probably, and it seems like a sort of a lifelong thing with, with he and his wife, Elva, that they, they never got the money they should have gotten.
Um, but it was, it was enough money at the time in one chunk to be able to quit his job and play piano full time.
And he was getting those mailbox checks from the domestic UK sales. Yeah, it was worth about 116,000 pounds in today's money or 147,000 us dollars.
SPEAKER_06: Not enough to retire on, but he apparently retired on it. Um, and like you said, he was getting those mailbox checks too, but they were set to expire in 1961 and supposedly the independent termed up evidence that, um, it might've been extended up to four years. So at the latest, he stopped getting checks in 1965 and he lived until 1994. So he had to make do all over again. It was a, a fortune, a mild fortune that he made and then, you know, just kind of lived on and had to go back to work eventually.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah. Like he should have been getting checks till the day he died. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_06: And I mean, like in Waddington's not informing him that clue was gangbusters over there. It's like, yes, if you're a business man, you can be like, yeah, that's business. It's called doing your due diligence. If you're Anthony Pratt and it's 1953, how are you going to find out what the sales are from Parker brothers of clue in North America? If you don't even have a clue that you're the American version of clue is selling like gangbusters over there, you probably, I don't know how you would even find that out.
SPEAKER_09: No, he was taking advantage of, I think so. His daughter still lives today. Marsha Davies has been on record saying and interviewed like that, you know, it's not like we talked about Cluedo much in our house. My mom would grouse about it occasionally that they didn't get the money they, they should have gotten from it. It's a great word. What word?
SPEAKER_06:
Grouse.
Yeah, that's a good word.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah. Double meaning too.
SPEAKER_06: What that it's a burden. Yeah. Attitude.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_09: Absolutely. Here is what it says on. And there's a little story I'll let you tell afterward, but like you said, he died in 1994 and on his grave. It says a very dear father, Anthony Pratt, born 10 August, 1903 died 9 April, 1994 inventor of Pluto sadly missed.
I really wish that she had put, you know, killed by Miss Scarlet in the conservatory with a lead pipe. That would have been awesome.
SPEAKER_09:
Just for fun.
SPEAKER_06:
For sure. Apparently he died in such obscurity that Waddington's had no idea that he was dead for three years and there's no telling if they ever really would have found out had they not been searching for him to celebrate. Cluedo's 150th 150 millionth sale.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and they put out a press release telling the public like, hey, we're looking for this guy.
SPEAKER_06: The title of the press release was wanted colon for murder.
Most enjoyable and apparently the person who ran the cemetery that he's buried in knew that he was buried there and got in touch with Waddington's and said, don't waste your time, man.
This that whole thing just really upsets me.
SPEAKER_06: It is kind of upsetting. There's nothing really good about the Anthony Pratt story.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah, because like first of all, they I think misled him. And then, you know, hey, he's an old man. Let's rub in the fact that we've sold 150 million of these games.
SPEAKER_06: Sure that he didn't have a piece of so like let's find him.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah, and they're like he's been dead for three years.
SPEAKER_06:
Even worse than that, Chuck. I read that they petitioned to exhume him to bring him to the celebration anyway. No, I'm not following that.
SPEAKER_06: I read that on Medium.
SPEAKER_09:
I mean, he should be crowned in like they should have a statue of him at Waddington's. For sure. Because the reason why not just because we're Clued fans, but because it's according to fun.com among other sources.
SPEAKER_06: It's probably the fifth most popular board game of all time. And that includes not just like Monopoly and Scrabble. We're talking about chess and checkers. It's in the top five with chess and checkers that have been around for thousands of years. So it was like a huge blockbuster game.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah, I'm going to call it the third. I don't even that should just be for branded games.
I agree with you.
SPEAKER_06:
I totally agree. I think that's sucker stuff calling chess and checkers a board game.
SPEAKER_09:
So I say it's the third most popular game of all time. We did a Monopoly episode.
What's the other one Scrabble?
Yeah.
Yeah, we should probably do a Scrabble app at some point.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_09: Maybe we can get Hodgman to make a rare guest appearance.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, rare.
SPEAKER_09: But everyone on Reddit gets mad every time I say the name Hodgman.
SPEAKER_06: That's awesome. That must have been a very enlightening experience, huh?
SPEAKER_09: Short-lived my friend.
SPEAKER_06: So Chuck, I say that we take a little break. And when we come back, we talk about how to actually play Clue as cobbled together from people who know what they're talking about.
SPEAKER_09: Let's do it.
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SPEAKER_09:
So my one regret is that I didn't get it together enough because we were on tour. To play clue. Before this game before this recording because I haven't played it in a long time Emily and I used to play mono mono clue.
SPEAKER_09: And can you quit.
Yeah it's not as fun and it's certainly not fun to play with Emily because she feels like she has a sort of patented foolproof victory route.
SPEAKER_09:
Oh yeah she has a methodology that she will not tell me what it is and she's she beat me every time so we just quit playing.
SPEAKER_06: That was like you me and me with backgammon.
SPEAKER_09: Who won? You me.
SPEAKER_09:
And she has a thing like she's. Yeah she was like it's the strategy of backgammon not like it's a secret or anything she's like I just figured it out and I still have never figured it out so we just stopped playing.
SPEAKER_09:
Well maybe we'll all get together they can just play each other in games and we'll just sit around and have a cocktail. That sounds like a great idea man.
SPEAKER_09: Because I'm not competitive like that.
SPEAKER_06: I'm not either. It's been so long since I played a board game I don't remember fully and it seems like I could be competitive but okay I think I was competitive at Trivial Pursuit.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah I mean I love board games I just never play them much anymore because we don't have a lot of friends who are like hey let's have board game night but I'd totally be into it.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah totally for sure. Alright so let's talk clue eh.
SPEAKER_09: Oh yeah so in the classic clue game there's so many variations on it that are slightly different some have like extra like cards to them or the names of the characters are a little different but if you just look at the basic classic clue which that's what we're going to talk about.
SPEAKER_06: 1972.
SPEAKER_09: 72, 86, 2023 even they re-updated the classic version.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah. But you're supposed to play with 3 to 6 players and clearly you can play with 2 I've seen in places you can play with 2 but if you look at the instructions it says 3 to 6 players ages 8 and up and if you're 7 and a half and precocious maybe you get a pass but really you don't want to play with anybody under 8 typically. Yeah I'm curious if Ruby would be into this we'll have to give it a shot.
SPEAKER_09:
Okay fair enough.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah so 8 and up what you do is you choose to be the identity of one of 6 people. Who? Colonel Mustard. The colonel the good colonel. Sure. Ms. Peacock. Professor Plum. Mrs. White. Mr. Green. And of course Ms. Scarlet who as a young Baptist boy that 72 clue she I looked at her picture quite a bit.
SPEAKER_09: She was very attractive for sure. So who were you who did you pick normally was there like one character for you when you were a kid?
SPEAKER_06:
You know I don't remember having a favorite now that I think about it did you?
SPEAKER_09:
Professor Plum.
SPEAKER_06: Oh okay that fits.
I just like the name and the color is pretty too but for some reason it's just it's like cellar door for me kinda. Yeah and you were you know you're a literary sort of type were you back then?
SPEAKER_06: No. No I like to read but I would not call myself literary. I didn't become pretentious until much later in life.
Yeah they didn't have Joe the plumber so.
SPEAKER_09:
Right. So there's 6 murder weapons right? 6 suspects 6 murder weapons. In the classic game the knife the revolver the wrench ouch the rope the candlestick and the lead pipe.
SPEAKER_06: Lot of head trauma among these you know.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah 4 of them are are are wackers huh? Exactly. No shillelagh but still it gets the point across.
SPEAKER_06:
Well I guess 3 of them are technically wackers.
SPEAKER_09: What the candlestick the wrench and the lead pipe?
SPEAKER_09: Yeah cause the rope is a is a choker revolver is a shooter and the knife is a stabber. Right. So I overshot it by one. Although you could hit somebody with a rope or the butt of a gun.
SPEAKER_06: Right or if you have a candle in the candlestick you could light them on fire.
SPEAKER_09: Ah good point. Or you could do some creative things with that lead pipe too you know what I'm saying? Yeah you could use it as a blow gun.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah absolutely.
SPEAKER_06: Although it's bent in the game so it probably wouldn't work very well. Yeah. Although you could use it to shoot around a corner.
So there's also 9 rooms on the board right? And there's the hall the lounge the dining room the kitchen the ballroom the conservatory the library and the study. And this was where I learned about manor houses and general estates architectural layouts usually on the first floor. Yeah I didn't know what a conservatory was like they'd introduced me to some of these terms even.
SPEAKER_09:
Yeah and the other thing everybody if you if you didn't play the 72 edition go look it up there's there's some for sale but if you look at the board it's really beautiful.
SPEAKER_06: Like they used textures and colors to signify what room was what I think for the ballroom it was like parquet flooring. Yeah yeah.
SPEAKER_09: I think this. Like wallpaper in one I think. Yeah I don't remember which one that was the kitchen had like doily a doily pattern.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_09: And the I think the study had like a red burgundy leather background it was just really neat looking.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah totally and it was as a kid your imagination is just running wild with this stuff because it is a game and that's kind of one of the fun things about it. Yeah. Especially as a kid is a game that has back story and it a lot goes on in your imagination it's not sorry or chutes and ladders you know.
Exactly well put and in addition to the fact that it had that potential to create that it was masterfully put together like the details of it were really evocative of that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_06: So like it really helped it along I guess is what I'm trying to say. Yeah totally.
SPEAKER_09: Totally. All right so the beginning of the game there are three cards that reveal the murder weapon, the murderer and where it took place. You seal those in an envelope and the whole goal of the game is to figure out who did the murder with what weapon and in what room.
SPEAKER_09:
Yes.
SPEAKER_06: And apparently there's about 324 different solutions that it could be which really doesn't matter because as long as there's more than one or two or three you're gonna it's gonna be a different game every time. Yeah.
So you roll the dice to move along the hallways in between rooms and then your goal initially is to get into a room because only when you're in a room can you say that you think the murder happened in that room you can't do it from the hallway or whatever right. Right. And when you're there when you can make a suggestion it's kind of like a soft accusation right. Right. Where you can say I think that it's Colonel Mustard in the ballroom which I'm currently in with the rope and what happens next is you go from player to player beginning at the player on your left. And if they have Colonel Mustard or the ballroom or the rope card because there's a card for each character each weapon in each room and everybody's distributed cards that they keep to themselves. If they have one of those cards they have to show you and if they have two of those cards they still only have to show you one but then your turn is over you've just been your theory's just been disproven.
SPEAKER_06:
Now you didn't win but at the same time you just gained a tremendous amount of information and the other people playing if they're paying attention gained a lesser amount but still some information.
That's the game like that you're paying attention like that it's deduction.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah it's using process of elimination and deduction and taking notes and we'll get into that in a second.
SPEAKER_09: One key thing here that I don't think you said was you bring all that stuff into the room like you bring that rope and that character into the room so you can also use a little bit of strategy there to pull Colonel Mustard you know that player away from where they were into that room. Yeah that's a great point for sure.
SPEAKER_06:
Some of it's luck right? Sure.
SPEAKER_09: I mean you roll the dice and you may or may not get into the room and if you're not in the room even if you know who it is you know let's say you're over in the study you got to get all the way to the kitchen because you know it's the kitchen.
SPEAKER_06: You can't make that final accusation and win the game until you're in the kitchen so dice rolls have something to do with it but really more than anything like we said it's mostly up to deduction and paying attention to the information you can glean.
SPEAKER_09: Right and I think I may have missed it if you said it did you also say that if no one reveals any card at all then you can actually like lay it all on the line and make an official accusation?
No I didn't say that.
SPEAKER_06: Okay well that's one of the keys like if no one reveals a card then you know like well wait a minute they don't have those cards so it's possible that those are the three cards in that envelope.
SPEAKER_09:
Right.
If it's early in the game it's obviously a huge risk you probably want to save that till later once you've narrowed it down more but you can I was about to say throw your cards on the table but don't do that but you can say you know what I'm gonna do it I'm gonna go for it and you look in that envelope and if that's it that's it you're won you've won it and if not then you're out that's the big risk.
SPEAKER_09:
Yeah because now you know who did it with what weapon and in what room so you're out of the game.
SPEAKER_06: You go pop the popcorn.
SPEAKER_09: Exactly.
SPEAKER_06: Now if you if you make that suggestion that's your theory of who did it with what and where and nobody shows you the card if you don't have any of those cards then you pretty much know that's your that you're right because I think all the cards are distributed equally among everybody right?
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: But you would say well why would you even say that if you why would you mention one of the ones that you have in your hand and this this is where we start to get into like like real deal strategy that you're not going to find in the rule books very much but work really well for clue.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah and we're gonna go over there's in one sec but I did want to add like one of the genius things of clue to me is that even even when you're eliminated it's still fun to sit around it's not it's not one of those games where you're like well I'm out of here then because you know I'm out of the game and watching it is no fun it's still fun to sit around and drink a cocktail and heckle everyone else. Especially if you're eight.
SPEAKER_06:
Yeah.
But yeah I was it's funny you say that because when we were researching this or when I was researching it today I had that same memory I was like I remember I wouldn't get up from the table like after I was eliminated I'd just stay there and watch it was really entertaining it was like the the pre-internet version of steam.
SPEAKER_09: I don't know what that is.
SPEAKER_06: It's where you it's like an internet thing where you watch people playing video games like you're just watching them play video games. Oh really? Yeah.
SPEAKER_06: Oh wow.
SPEAKER_06:
Yeah. I mean it's people make a living doing that. Is that the thing where people play oh did you say video games?
SPEAKER_09:
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_09: Oh yeah I have heard of that I thought you were saying board games. No no I'll bet that's out there too. I'm sure that's a thing too.
SPEAKER_06: For sure I'll bet that's out there too and I'll bet they make a living from it as well.
SPEAKER_09: All right so we promised some strategies and these were where did we call these from? They came from the Spruce Crafts, Stack Exchange Posts, and Reddit Threads.
SPEAKER_09:
That's a good place to go probably.
SPEAKER_06: For sure because I mean people share strategy for Clue all over the internet and if it works it works. Yeah now here's the deal I haven't played it so long a lot of these just I didn't fully understand because I'm just so out of practice.
SPEAKER_09: So I'm going to buy that 72 game and get back into it and revisit these but I can tell you about them.
SPEAKER_09: One of the strategies and you know it's kind of the most obvious one is you're using those suggestions to get into that process of elimination and eliminate you know people, rooms, and weapons.
It's hardest for the rooms because you have to be in that room to guess it so you actually have to roll the dice to get there.
SPEAKER_09:
But you know you're if you're trying to eliminate a weapon like you want that gun out of the game then suggest it and see if they have it.
And then you know you can keep sort of harping on that.
Right.
SPEAKER_09: But that may mean that you're also trying to throw people off the scent and they might catch on you might actually have that card right? Yeah or yeah if you're watching if you're playing with somebody and they keep mentioning the revolver whatever every time they make a suggestion.
SPEAKER_06: That means either they have the revolver and they're using a process of elimination or they've already figured out the revolver is the actual murder weapon. So right you you if you're being really strategic you don't want to use that same one if you know that that's something. Yeah is in that envelope that sealed envelope is the weapon or the murderer or the room maybe mix it up a little bit to pay is to throw off the people are really paying attention to you.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah for sure. So if you make or if anyone makes a suggestion and you know like if you suggest something to Yumi and Emily I notice that she doesn't or that nobody shows a card. Yeah.
SPEAKER_09: Or if you suggest something period and no one shows you the card then chances are that you've gotten one of the three cards in that envelope in your suggestion.
Right.
SPEAKER_06: But that doesn't mean that you necessarily have the answer if you don't have any of those three cards in your hand because if you have more than one card let's say you say Professor Plum with the lead pipe in the conservatory and I have Professor Plum and the conservatory in my hand. I only have to show you Professor Plum or the conservatory I don't have to show you both. And so a good strategy is if I've shown you Professor Plum I can write down showed Professor Plum already and so if somebody guesses Professor Plum in the conservatory again I can just show you Professor Plum and I will not be giving the information to anybody that I have the conservatory as well. You know what this episode is?
SPEAKER_09: What?
Clue people are going to love it and be angry at us. Right. Non clue people are just going to hate us. Why?
SPEAKER_06: Because they're having trouble following what we're saying? Well of course if you've never played Clue this is getting in the weeds you know.
SPEAKER_09: Sure it is for sure.
SPEAKER_06: But we're getting in the weeds such that I also don't feel confident we're getting it all right so Clueists will be like oh guys how could you forget?
SPEAKER_09:
That feeling is like an old friend to us by now Chuck.
SPEAKER_06: It really is.
SPEAKER_09:
It's the fourth leg of our podcast. Exactly.
SPEAKER_09: One thing that they say you can do is you know if you play against the same people you know it's not unlike poker in that people bluff and they have their own little tricks and things and tells so just to sort of pay attention and try and read them if you play with your family all the time let's say. For sure.
SPEAKER_06: So this is what it all boils down to right here Chuck. It's deduction. It's process of elimination. I'll bet you can't.
SPEAKER_06: So let's say you're holding Miss Scarlet and your friend you already know has the candlestick because you guessed it before and they showed it to you so you know that they have the candlestick and then somebody else says that they think it was Miss Scarlet in the dining room with the candlestick and another player is like here's a card that disproves it. You know that that player has the dining room right?
SPEAKER_06: You have Miss Scarlet your other friend has the candlestick that fourth player has the dining room because they showed it to player three and you mark that down and if you do that enough times you can figure out what cards are being held by people and hence through process of elimination what cards are likely is hidden in the envelope as the murderer and the murder weapon and the room the murder took place in.
SPEAKER_09: I'm sure that's what Emily's doing like a variation on that because she's she's scribbling down stuff right. I'm not taking nearly enough notes clearly because that's a big part of the game. Yeah.
And when I was reading about all the different note taking and you're going to need an even bigger notebook than the notepad they give you I was like oh really? No it's true there's like the it's it's a logic problem basically so much so that they they they train artificial intelligence on it.
SPEAKER_06: There's a Dutch computer scientist named Hans von dip March. Yeah. Who did a like a Cluedo formalization they took he took the Cluedo and translated it into AI instructions and basically what his premises is that it's all changes in information when you interact with other players your information changes. And so the AI tries to figure out what route it has to take through player to player to player to get to the information it needs to win the game in the fewest moves which essentially is probably what Emily's doing. So you're married to an artificial intelligence it turns out. Yeah sure that makes sense that tracks.
SPEAKER_06: But I mean that's that's how logical clue actually is it's it's this process of deduction where if you if you can track the information that you're getting or that other people are getting you can win the game every time basically. Yeah and was that the thing that Duke University used?
SPEAKER_09: Yeah they came up with their own thing an algorithm to play clue which anytime you have a logic problem you can develop an algorithm for it right?
SPEAKER_09:
Yeah so they basically were turned into an algorithm for what you were kind of talking about like a treasure hunt problem how to get there the quickest how to get to the answer the quickest and they said like you know one day they can apply this kind of thing to stuff like robotic mine sweeping even. Yeah. Which is pretty cool go find the mine like quicker. Yeah if you just playing casually with friends casually or if you're the only one who's not playing casually maybe reconsider using some of these harder core in the weeds strategies and just pay attention and use the notepad that it comes with and have fun.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah and maybe don't announce before the game that I have a foolproof method that I win every time. Yeah and at least don't take a lap around the game table after you win.
SPEAKER_06: She's the worst winner.
Alright so let's take a break then and we'll come right back everybody.
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So like we said there's a bunch of variations that are just super darling if you played clue and it has a place in your heart. Yeah pinning on where you are in the world there's just different names for different characters right we said that Mr. Green is called Reverend Green in the UK or used to be the victim remember this the owner of the house that everybody's at these are party guests ostensibly and murder takes place and it's the host who's murdered every time. And the host in the US is known as Mr. body with two D's kind of some gallows humor in the in the UK he's known as Dr. Black right I like that too what about in Switzerland.
SPEAKER_06: It's funny because some of these I was like no of course not it's the classic is what you want but some of these I liked Herr Cluedo in Switzerland.
SPEAKER_09: Senor Limon in Spain like you said he was Reverend Green but Dr. Olive in France was Mr. Green which is okay. Professor Plum is Professor Black in Brazil. Mrs. Peacock is Baroness von Blau which I love in Norway and in Switzerland I do not like this one Colonel Mustard is Madame Curie.
SPEAKER_07:
SPEAKER_06: Not Curie.
Is that what it's supposed to be?
SPEAKER_09: I guess so.
SPEAKER_06: I thought Curie was C-U-R-I-E.
Right it is but Curie is a color.
Is that a play on that? I think so that's how I'm thinking it. I hate it even more. There's also been some changes to the materials too if you bought the original version of Clue back in 1949 I guess the rope was actually a little tiny piece of rope. I love that.
SPEAKER_09:
SPEAKER_09: And the lead pipe was made of lead.
SPEAKER_06: Amazing. Yeah that's authentic stuff. Over the years though they've generally stuck to the same premise the same characters and just kind of like it's been like jazz like they've been riffing on you know the original form.
SPEAKER_09:
Yeah like the backstories would change a little bit and this is the kind of thing where I'm really going to try and resist the urge to poo poo more modernized changes. I know what you mean. As like you know Gen X guy who says the 72 version is the best but Colonel Mustard is a soccer star as of 2008 Jack Mustard, Professor Plum was turned into Victor Plum a video game designer.
SPEAKER_09: Brilliant video game designer.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah that's fine. You know if that helps you know kids get into it a little more. What I am going to take issue with is adding home theater as one of the rooms. That's funny because that was the one that made the most sense to me.
Oh I don't know. Updating the room?
Yeah I mean it makes sense I just I don't know kill somebody with a candlestick in the home theater. I don't know.
Just it feels at odds with the sort of because I still sort of associate it with this sort of English estate kind of thing. I see what you mean for sure.
SPEAKER_06: I get that but I guess they probably have home theaters in the UK right? No of course they do.
SPEAKER_06: Okay so that was the Discover the Secrets 2008 edition. That was probably from what I can tell the biggest makeover of any of the editions. They went so far as to get rid of Mrs. White and replaced her with her adopted daughter Dr. Orchid. That didn't last all that long I guess it lasted a decade or two but in 2023 they came up with another update and they basically took it back to the beginning. Mrs. White came back but now she's Chef White. They combined the UK and the American names for the host and now it's Mr. Bodden Body Black. Colonel Mustard stopped playing soccer and went back to the military.
Mrs. Peacock is now a lawyer, a solicitor. Mr. Green's a mayor. Ms. Scarlet's the same. And Professor Plum is the same. And the weapons of the rooms are back to what they were back when we loved the game Chuck. So you can settle down.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah and I looked up this new one because there are people that have been saying like oh they made them all sexy looking. I don't know about that.
I guess they're a little they skew younger than the original cast or not the original but the 72 version.
I believe Ms. Scarlet and Plum now are people of color so they've gotten a little more diverse which is good. I think Mayor Green is as well.
SPEAKER_06: And there are also licensed versions which I've never seen.
SPEAKER_09: You know I have that Star Wars monopoly which is a lot of fun but apparently there's a Alfred Hitchcock clue. That sounds awesome. It sounds pretty good where the characters are characters from the movies, Hitchcock movies, kind of fun.
SPEAKER_09: One of the rooms is the Bates Motel.
SPEAKER_06: Bates Motel. Of course it is.
SPEAKER_09: You know I finally saw Psycho for the first time.
SPEAKER_06: What? Just like a month ago maybe.
I was reading about it and I guess I watched the documentary about the shower scene which is a pretty good documentary.
SPEAKER_06:
It made me realize like the way that people were talking about the movie I'm like that doesn't track with what I know about Psycho. Turns out it's a far different movie than what I realized. It's really good.
SPEAKER_09:
Yeah I mean that whole first part of the movie like if you haven't seen it you probably wouldn't even know it existed because not many people talk about it.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah and I can imagine like watching that movie before you know everyone knew that Norman Bates was the killer. And that you know the protagonist who you think is the protagonist gets killed off. The big star. That it was just totally shocking. Must have been amazing. Have you seen a lot of Hitchcock stuff?
SPEAKER_09:
Yeah which is why it's really weird that I hadn't seen Psycho.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah great movie. Scooby Doo version. The weapons are monsters.
And then this one's kind of cute. The Golden Girls clue version.
Instead of murder it's who ate the last slice of cheesecake.
SPEAKER_06: That's adorable. It's so what do they call it online?
SPEAKER_09: Wholesome.
SPEAKER_06: Wholesome right.
So there's been a ton of spinoffs of the clue IP. Owned by Hasbro by the way who also made the stuff you should know version of Trivial Pursuit. Yeah they bought out the other companies right? Parker Brothers and Waddington's.
SPEAKER_09: Yes they dominate.
SPEAKER_06: But so there was like a game show in the UK from 1990 to 93 which was pretty cute. I was watching part of an episode. There was a book a series of young adult mystery books. There was a 1980s VCR game which is actually really beloved and harder than the board game by far. I remember those.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah me too. Not clue but just VCR games. Supposedly Dwayne Perkins from The Blackening is coming up with an animated series based on clue.
SPEAKER_06: Cool. And we just could not have this episode and not discuss the classic 1985 movie clue. It's so good. Not just as in its own right a good movie but as an adaptation of something that already existed. It just did it perfectly. Yeah it's one of my favorite comedies of the 80s for sure.
SPEAKER_09:
It was you know now making something like a movie out of a video game is something that wouldn't surprise you. But 1985 it was very unusual. It was written and directed co-written by Jonathan Lin and directed by Jonathan Lin co-written with John Landis.
SPEAKER_09: Jonathan Lin also directed My Cousin Vinny and The Whole Nine Yards.
Oh cute.
So you know a few other pretty big movies. And it's just it's one of my favorites. The big mistake then why it was considered a box office flop was that studio executives got greedy. And they would send one three different prints of clue to movie theaters with a different ending on each print with the idea that hey people will go and see this movie three times to go and see the three possible endings. And it did not work out that way. I know that's crazy because I saw it in the theaters and I was enthralled by the idea that there were other endings.
SPEAKER_06: I thought that was the coolest thing I'd ever seen in my short nine years on the planet. Did you go see other versions in the theater? Do you remember?
SPEAKER_09: No I was just content with knowing there were other versions out there.
SPEAKER_06: But when the movie came out on VHS we rented it like too sweet to watch them all because they very wisely included them all in the ending. Which is the same if you watch it on like Prime or Netflix or whatever now. Yeah and not only is it great to not have to pay three times to go see it but it functions really well with the one two three endings because you know they do the ending and they'll say or it could have happened like this.
SPEAKER_09: And then they I mean that's when Tim Curry just really shines.
SPEAKER_09: I mean he's great through the whole thing as Wadsworth the butler but he really really shines when he's it's just a genius comedic performance.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah for sure. So did Madeline Kahn as Mrs. White when she talks about hating Yvette. Oh God.
SPEAKER_06:
That was apparently improvised.
SPEAKER_09: Classic.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah if you haven't seen Clue go see it like tonight. It's just such a great movie. And our friends over at Mental Floss Matthew Jackson wrote something about like little known facts about the movie Clue. And apparently there was a fourth ending originally that they didn't bother shooting. Carrie Fisher was supposed to be Miss Scarlet rather than Leslie Ann Warren.
SPEAKER_09:
Exactly. And get this the telegram the singing telegram girl.
SPEAKER_06: That was Jane Weidland from the Go-Go's. Yeah I mean there's another one too if you want to hear it.
SPEAKER_09:
Let's hear it.
You know who played Mr. Body?
No.
It was Lee Vang who was the singer and guitarist of the hardcore punk band Fear.
No.
SPEAKER_09:
Yes John Belushi's buddy. Wow.
So two music connections. I think we should go through the rest of the cast too just because it's short and amazing.
It is a great cast.
SPEAKER_06: Christopher Lloyd played Professor Plum.
SPEAKER_09: Yeah.
You already mentioned the great Madeline Kahn.
Flames on the side of my face. It's just unbelievable. Also in that scene when he's running he grabs her. Tim Curry grabs her to run upstairs and explain how she did it in one of the endings. And she and I think she probably made this up too. She just she trips and falls on her face like a third of the way up the stairs and he keeps going. Yeah.
Great physical comedy. The great Martin Mull is Colonel Mustard. Michael McKean is Mr. Green.
SPEAKER_09: I mean I feel like ruining his great last line but maybe I shouldn't. Yeah don't.
SPEAKER_06: Okay.
SPEAKER_09: Eileen Brennan who is wonderful. Miss Peacock. We already mentioned Jane Whelan and Ving. Colleen Camp, classic as Yvette.
And if you recognized the cook it was she was a mash.
Kelly Nakahara played the cook and she played Lieutenant Yamoto in Match.
Oh yeah I remember her.
SPEAKER_09: So the cast is amazing and if you're interested in a deeper dive the great and wonderful Casey Wilson was a movie crush guest and this was her movie. Nice. That's a great movie.
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
SPEAKER_09: If you want to know more about Clue the movie go watch it.
SPEAKER_06: Don't read anything else about it. Don't listen to anybody else jabber on about it. Just go watch it and thank us later. And if you've never played Clue you'd do a lot worse than starting with the 1972 edition Friends. Yeah. Well since Chuck agreed with my assessment that means of course it's time for Listen Her Mail.
SPEAKER_09: I'm going to watch it again soon. I'm now remembering how great Eileen Brennan was. Yeah. She's wonderful.
SPEAKER_06: Everyone is so good.
SPEAKER_09: Alright here we go. Hi Josh and Chuck had just finished. This is a correction of. Epic proportions?
No it's just something that we like to correct these especially.
SPEAKER_09: Just finished listening to the J.D. Salinger episode. Fascinating listen so thanks for diving into this. I'm a big fan of stuff you should know. This is my first time sending in a correction.
But at the end of the episode Josh refers to an article by a guy named Michiko Kakutani.
I thought it was important to note that Michiko Kakutani is a woman.
She's a revered literary critic, writer and Pulitzer Prize winner.
And I wanted to make this trailblazing woman.
Make sure that she got her due on your show.
And that is from Julie Ann Behar from White Salmon Washington. Thanks a lot Julie Ann I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_06: I feel like all the corrections that we're reading lately are mine. Disproportionately.
SPEAKER_09: I'm not filing mine away and like burning them. Yeah that was a pretty big flub I'm sorry about that.
SPEAKER_06:
Thank you for that correction. That was a good one. If I misspoke in this episode or any other episode that you noticed.
Let us know about it. Chuck will read it for sure on the air. You can send it off via email to stuffpodcast.iheartradio.com
SPEAKER_00:
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