Selects: Who were the Buffalo Soldiers?

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Well, you can join Heart of the Game as they explore these questions and more with some of the greatest families in sports. Listen to Heart of the Game on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And those are always my favorite when I go in kind of blind and learn a lot. So check it out. Who were the Buffalo Soldiers? SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. SPEAKER_05: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Action Jackson Bryant, right? Sure. And then there's Jerry over there, The Flash. That makes this Stuff You Should Know. That's right. SPEAKER_04: If there's a... One thing people say to me is how much I'm like Carl Weathers. Sure. And how speedy Jerry is. SPEAKER_05: Why do I want to say that Carl Weathers had one arm in Action Jackson? SPEAKER_04: I don't think that was the case. SPEAKER_05: Has he ever had one arm in any of his... Oh, I think his arm gets pulled off in Predator. Okay. SPEAKER_04: I'm conflating the two. That sounds about right. I saw Predator, but just once, like, you know, when it came out. SPEAKER_05: I saw it within the last 12 months. Oh, yeah? I think it's even better now as a grown up. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Okay. I can really feel the tension, like you're in the jungle there with everybody. It's amazing. Have you been singing the Buffalo Soldier song constantly in your head? SPEAKER_04: Despite my best efforts, I can't stop. SPEAKER_05: Well, I looked up the lyrics because I was just, you know, I know some of them. SPEAKER_04: But I wanted to kind of see where exactly he was probably talking about the soldiers. Yeah. And there were some kind of on the nose references. SPEAKER_05: Sure. He mentioned San Juan. SPEAKER_04: Mentioned San Juan. What else? You know, fighting for America, fighting on arrival, fighting for survival. Sure. I always got it wrong, though. I thought he said dreadlock rock star. SPEAKER_05: No, he says dreadlock Rasta. SPEAKER_04: I know. I learned that today. Dreadlock rock star. I've been singing. Well, I thought he was talking about himself. That's hilarious. I was singing it wrong. I mean, he was singing about himself. SPEAKER_05: No, he was singing about the Buffalo Soldiers. They weren't Rastas. I guess some of them could have been. Maybe. We'll find out. SPEAKER_04: Anyway, I've been singing for 40 years. Dreadlock rock star. That's pretty great. Like a dum dum. SPEAKER_05: Oh, that's all right. It's pretty close, man. And it still makes sense. The ones that don't make sense are the hilarious ones. SPEAKER_04: That just seems like a very, like, I don't know, 1991 white college kid thing to sing. Dreadlock rock star. Yeah. Dreadlock rock. Yeah. When you first start listening to Bob Marley. Uh huh. SPEAKER_05: Okay. You ready? I'm ready. So we're talking Buffalo Soldiers and it is not just a Bob Marley song. It's if anything, the Bob Marley song is kind of like a history lesson, which is kind of interesting. A bit. But the Buffalo Soldiers was the name of some all black regiments and then eventually all black soldiers in the United States fighting in the United States military. That's right. From right after the Civil War, all the way up until I think 1951 when the last all black regiment was disbanded and the military was in practice desegregated. SPEAKER_04: Yeah. But when did you say that happened? SPEAKER_05: I think 1951. SPEAKER_04: Okay. Um, but they did not take on that name till post civil civil war. SPEAKER_05: Right. And at first it wasn't a name that they took on themselves. It was a name that was given to them. There's a lot of dispute over where it came from, who is the first to use it, that kind of stuff. But it's a really interesting history and it's not just an interesting like military history. There's a lot of like terrible tragic irony involved. Sure. There's um, there's a, a, a, this kind of overarching theme where you can make a case that the Buffalo Soldiers are the ones who actually paved the way for desegregation throughout the entire United States. Yeah. You can trace a direct line from their service to desegregation. It's pretty, pretty amazing stuff. And yet there's still this kind of, um, cloud that hangs over them historically because of one of the things that they participated in, which was the genocide of Native Americans at the behest of the white US government. SPEAKER_04: Right. Because they were trying to earn a place in a white America and gain some status and prestige. And white America was like, we want you to do something for us first. SPEAKER_04: And we'll still probably not grant you that respect. Yeah. SPEAKER_05: Which is kind of par for the course from what I understand as far as military service and being black in America goes. Um, and the Battle of New Orleans, the Black Phalanx, this black regiment ended up. Pretty cool name. Yeah, it really is. They ended up basically winning the battle, um, against the British at the Battle of New Orleans, which actually came ironically after the end of the war of 1812, but it was still a decisive battle. Yeah. Um, and they had been mustered, a lot of them from local plantations by Andrew Jackson. And Jackson had promised them their freedom if they came and fought and won and they came and fought and won and Jackson said, yeah, sorry, you have to go back to your plantations. I was lying. Yeah, that's not a surprise. Yeah. But, um, imagine that, and that was not the first time that that had happened to him. That was pretty much par for the course. Sure. While they were enslaved, they would be promised freedom for fighting. And then, no, after the fact, that's just not, it's not going to happen. SPEAKER_04: Yeah. And you know, like we said, the Buffalo Soldiers, uh, post civil war were, and we'll, we'll get to, um, like their formal designation and their regiments and stuff like that. Okay. But there had been, uh, individuals enlisted and all the way back to the Revolutionary War. Yeah. There were, you know, black individuals that would go and fight, but they just weren't grouped in their own regiments. The first one was the black regiment in, uh, Rhode Island, I think. Yeah. In the Revolutionary War. Mm hmm. SPEAKER_05: I didn't, we talk about them in a short stuff about, um, the, uh, black Revolutionary War fighters and they moved up to Nova Scotia. We definitely did. Did we? SPEAKER_04: Uh, so the Grabster put this, uh, a lot of this together for us, which was a big help. And it's important to look at what was going on after the civil war and this unique set of circumstances that were created, uh, that kind of led to these regiments being formed. Yeah. Which was, uh, about 12,000, maybe a little bit more black veteran soldiers from the civil war, all of a sudden needed jobs and they were soldiers at this point. So they were like, you know, I'll keep doing this. This could be my career. Right. Like, give us a job. Yeah. Uh, in Reconstruction in the South, they needed federal troops. Um, they needed white federal troops. Well, yes, it was probably not a good idea to send, uh, black troops for, to oversee Reconstruction. So to occupy the South. SPEAKER_05: Can you imagine? No, it would not have been good. SPEAKER_05: Oh my God. So they sent white troops, of course, but that created a vacuum elsewhere where they could use and utilize these black troops. SPEAKER_04: Right. Um, there were 4 million slaves that were now free and, uh, Ed hazard a guess that, you know, let's say a million, one and a half million of these were adult males that were ready to go and serve and fight if need be. And then we were going West and we knew that there were native Americans out there that were not going to go easily. Uh, there was Mexico looming on the horizon as potential conflict. And because they were sending white soldiers to the South, uh, they needed people to go out West and kind of, you know, keep the peace in a way and take care of business in another way. Or to remove native Americans forcibly from their ancestral lands. SPEAKER_05: That's right. So, um, on July 28th, 1866, Congress did something really surprising. They said, we've got all these kinds of expansionist ideas. We've got the South that we need to occupy. We need a bigger army. Yeah. We're going to raise a huge peacetime army. And not only that, we're going to form some all black regiments. We're going to let black people, um, enlist for the first time ever as peacetime soldiers. SPEAKER_04: Yeah. And partially because they just needed people and partially because they thought these black veterans that fought in the civil war for the union, they should be rewarded with jobs. Exactly. SPEAKER_05: So for the first time, the federal government didn't renege on the offer of something better after having served and fought as a soldier. So there was a big deal in just having, you know, allowing, um, soldiers, uh, black soldiers to enlist during peacetime. Yeah. But the fact that they could enlist meant that they could become officers as well, which meant West Point was open to black, um, soldiers for the first time. SPEAKER_04: Which was a huge deal. Yeah. Um, in 18, so in 1866 is when they expanded the army. Just a few years later, they wanted to shrink the army a little bit. So they consolidated a bunch of regiments down to 25. And the original, I think it was six. Yeah. Uh, four infantry and two cavalry were now shrunk down and combined into the ninth cavalry, the 10th, uh, cavalry. SPEAKER_04: I'm saying both cavalry and cavalry. Sure. Covering all your bases. Even though only one of them is correct in this cavalry. Uh, the 24th infantry and the 25th infantry. SPEAKER_05: Right. And the fact that they survived this downsizing of the army, cause Congress went, we need a big army. Oh, that's too big. Let's get rid of some, some soldiers. The fact that all black regiments survived is really miraculous because in that downsizing decree a few years later, it wasn't, um, it wasn't included. Like, and we still need to keep black regiments in intact. Right. Um, and William Tecumseh Sherman was no great friend to the black man by any stretch of the imagination. And he was in charge of downsizing these troops. And yet he knew enough that there were still Congress people, congressmen in Congress who had created the black regiments in the first place. They would not be very happy if he just dissolved them. So he kept them intact and actually just went from six to four. SPEAKER_04: Yeah. And it's interesting because it was peace time, you know, during war time, especially back then, it was really pretty easy to get people to sign up and volunteer and fight for whatever side they were on. Yeah. But in peace time, they found that they could get the cream of the crop of black soldiers because they didn't have as much opportunity. Right. So they could really be picky and get these really like super capable fighters. Right. Whereas on the other side, during peace time, it was harder to get white soldiers that were as capable because they had much more opportunities to do other things beyond like, hey, I got nothing going on. Let's sign up for the army. Right, exactly. SPEAKER_05: And in the army too, there's a lot of mythologizing about, you know, how the black regiments were treated related to white regiments as well. And it seems like some historians have shown if you trace the supply lines, the black regiments got the same shoddy and then increasingly better supplies as the white regiments at the same time. And in the army, you had just opportunities that just weren't afforded to you outside, like the opportunity to make money, you know, and have savings and a pension. Things that you could kind of bank on a future with that was just not part of the black experience of black men back then. Right. You know? SPEAKER_04: I think that's a very robust set up and more. SPEAKER_05: Oh, we're still doing set up? SPEAKER_04: No, that's beyond, that's why I said and more. Okay. But I think what I'm trying to say is it's a great time for a break. Okay. Yeah? Yeah. All right. We'll be right back and we'll talk a little bit about how this name came to be right after this. 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Chris Gaines. Yes. Learn the lesson from Chris Gaines. Yeah. Who else has done that? It doesn't matter. Chris Gaines is enough for 50 of them. Ziggy Stardust certainly worked. SPEAKER_04: Captain Fantastic worked. SPEAKER_05: Fine. Chris Gaines negates all those. No, I agree. Okay. SPEAKER_04: I know that Beyonce. Very short lived. Really? Mm-hmm. And what was the persona? Was it like really different? I guess she was fierce. SPEAKER_05: I don't know. I just heard her name a couple of times. Beyonce's fierce though, right? Right. You don't need an alter ego, Beyonce. You're fierce enough. You don't want to go too much fiercer. You should be her manager. SPEAKER_04: I should. You know all the right moves. So that is one of the stories was that it was honor, a name of honor from the Native Americans. But this to me sounds like it might have been just something kind of cooked up in history books. SPEAKER_05: Or it just kind of converted into that. Maybe. The Smithsonian Museum of African American History says, yeah, that stands as popular lore. That's one example. Another is basically there's two competing ones. And that is that the Native Americans did give this name to the black soldiers. But that they were referring to the wooliness of the black soldier's hair compared to white soldier's hair. And that if you look between the horns of a buffalo, that kind of like toupee almost that the buffalo's wearing bears a vague resemblance to it. And that's where it initially came from. Yeah, and there's like direct evidence from letters and stuff of the time of this. SPEAKER_04: Whether or not it was true or not, it was at least down in print as being the reason. Yeah. But we don't know for sure. And we don't know for sure how they felt about the name other than it seems like as time went on they kind of embraced the name as a designation. Right, for sure. And in one case there was one troop that did use a bison on a patch on their uniform. But then bison were used on other patches on uniforms of white soldiers too. I think it was strictly black regiments. SPEAKER_05: Oh really? Just later ones that weren't the 9th, 10th, 24th, or 25th. Oh, gotcha. That was my interpretation. Okay. But yeah, by the time I think 1911 is when that first patch appears. So by the time 1911 rolls around, the black regiments had totally like taken on Buffalo Soldier as a name of honor. Yeah, and Ed points out, and I think it's fair, it's easy now in 2020 to look back at two ethnic groups that were, you know, kept under the thumb of the white man. SPEAKER_04: Right. And say that, oh, you know, the Native Americans respected them as fierce fighters and the black soldiers respected the Native Americans. But that's probably retroactive. Revisionist history. Revisionist history because, you know, there were plenty of cases where the Buffalo Soldiers referred to them as, you know, savages. And in one case of one soldier, you know, going as a costume party dressed up in I guess what you would call red face. Oh yeah. SPEAKER_05: And so yeah, it seems like that's sort of cooked up these days. SPEAKER_04: Like they really had much respect for one another during their battles, but I don't know if that's the case. No, but you can understand how that would, how people would want to do that. SPEAKER_05: Sure. You know, because I mean, the sending African American soldiers out to remove Native Americans from their land with violence at the behest of white people. It's not a good story. No, it's a terrible story. Yeah, it takes a bad story, makes it worse. SPEAKER_04: And then at the same time, there's a real silver lining to it. SPEAKER_05: There's that good story that like black soldiers served as heroes for the black community in America as a whole at a time when they really needed some black heroes. You know, when the Jim Crow South was really starting to solidify. So it's not like an all bad story, but it's definitely not an all good story either. So people want like a nice storybook ending for sure, which is surely where that came from. Yeah, I think so. So should we talk a little bit about what they did? SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we should. Their service record? Yeah, when they were first assembled in, I think that late to mid 1860s, they were almost immediately moved out to the frontier. SPEAKER_05: Kansas and Texas, New Mexico, pushing further and further west as their work was increasingly successful. Yeah, and usually under the command of white officers. SPEAKER_04: Yeah. It was not looked at as some great assignment if you were a white officer to go west and command one of the Buffalo Soldier regiments. Yeah, it would have been like being stationed in Alaska or something like that. SPEAKER_05: Alaska's great. Although some white commanding officers did rise to the occasion. Yeah, and had a lot of great things to say about the soldiers too. SPEAKER_04: For sure. SPEAKER_05: Some of them definitely did not rise to the occasion and actually went the other way. Right. SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and you mentioned West Point. This was a huge deal because, like you said, now these young men could go attend West Point and come out officers upon entry into the army. There were quite a few cases. One was a man named Henry Flipper. He was the first black graduate of West Point in 1877. Came out as second lieutenant in the 10th Cavalry and was basically set up with a court martial. There was a case where he was put in charge of a quartermaster safe to guard it basically and take charge of it. Money becomes missing. He kind of freaks out and lies about it. It's kind of all evidence pointing to the fact that he didn't take the money, but he did lie about where it went. What did he lie about then? SPEAKER_05: I couldn't find that. I think that the initial money was missing at all maybe. SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay. I'm not really sure. Gotcha. But it looks like it was a setup. He was acquitted of the main charge even back then. Yeah. And was found guilty of an added charge of conduct unbecoming of an officer. The lying part. Right. And was dismissed from the army, which even back then was an overblown sentence compared to the similar charges of white officers. Right. SPEAKER_05: The army at the time, he could have gotten his discharge changed to honorable discharge. But the army apparently didn't have any procedure to do that. So it was up to the commander in chief, Chester A. Arthur, to decide yea or nay. And he just let it pass by. Right. So was he a lieutenant? Second lieutenant. Second lieutenant Flipper went to his grave saying that he was innocent. And in the 90s, I think 1998, Bill Clinton finally pardoned him. Billy boy. He did. And Clinton, that ghoul, ordered him exhumed and reburied with full military honors. Oh, interesting. But they suspect that Clinton just wanted to see what the body looked like. Come on. SPEAKER_04: He said, let's do this right. Yeah, he probably did say that. SPEAKER_04: So there were another couple of cases. John Hanks Alexander and Charles Young, they were West Point grads early on. They went on to lead these regiments. And that's not to say that at West Point it was smooth sailing, of course. Right. You know, they had a very hard time there and still persevered. SPEAKER_05: Yeah, extraordinarily. Ed points out that in the Tuskegee Airmen episode, too, I think we talked about how those guys who went through West Point had, or the military academies had just an awful time of it, too. Yeah, I mean, that happened. SPEAKER_04: I mean, it probably still happens to some degree. Sure. But I mean, I read the Lords of Discipline. I did, too. And saw the movie. I don't know if I saw the movie or not. And that was, what year was that set? That was... SPEAKER_05: It was probably the 60s. Was it? I don't remember. He just was soft or something, wasn't it? He like was, was, he had feelings? SPEAKER_04: You know, I don't remember. I haven't seen it in a long time. But that was the Citadel, not West Point. Which is Navy, I think, right? SPEAKER_05: Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard. I'm not sure what the Citadel is. National Guard? No. Cub Scouts? SPEAKER_04: Yes, it was Cub Scouts. Citadel. Famous Cub Scout military institution. Military institution. So, these regiments had about a thousand troops and officers. But they were constantly under supplied. SPEAKER_04: Yeah. And like you said earlier, there's no evidence that they were intentionally under supplied. No, but it's a myth that they were. SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but kind of everyone out West was. Because it takes a long time to get stuff out there. And a lot of those old Civil War weapons and equipment were pretty shoddy anyway. Yeah, plus, I mean, it's not really easy to come by water in the New Mexico desert. SPEAKER_05: Sure. Or you're fighting the Cheyenne or the Apache. Like, so you have horses that need water too, because you're a cavalry unit. And the horses were breaking down. It was a really bad time as they were moving further and further West. Because we tend to think of the United States military like in the terms of today. This just incredibly well oiled logistical juggernaut. Sure. That was not the case after the Civil War. As a matter of fact, until I believe the Spanish American War, the United States military was looked upon internationally as kind of like not the best around. Oh, yeah? Certainly not the best equipped. The logistics, we didn't have that kind of stuff down. You didn't hear it from me, but. Right, exactly. But this is, you know, the army that these guys were enlisted in. So they were dealing with an army that was finding its feet. And then also on the frontier of the United States at a time when they're protecting the people building the railroads. So there's not even the railroads out there yet. One of their jobs was to protect railroad workers, mail carriers, people who were on cattle drives. Yeah. These were the jobs they were tasked with. SPEAKER_04: Well, they were also fighting, like we said, in what was known as the Indian Wars, including some of the big ones. I think we need to do a big old episode on the Indian Wars. SPEAKER_05: Yeah, let's do it. SPEAKER_04: Wounded Knee, the White River War. I'd never heard of that one. SPEAKER_05: I looked it up. The war is not a term for most of these. It should be massacred. No, it should be straight up massacres. Yeah. Although here's the other thing, too. This is really easy for guys like us to do, especially in retrospect. What's called mythologizing the noble savage, right? Right. Where we kind of make it seem like the Indians were just the people who kind of meekly accepted their fate and were just rolled over by the U.S. government through this westward expansion. That's not the case. In almost every case, the further west we got, the fiercer the fighting got. They pushed back for sure. They engaged in massacres that included killing women and children and non-combatants. Both sides did. So it's not like the Native Americans were just innocent of bloodshed. But it's important to remember that they were defending their lands from invaders. They were the insurgents in that. So there's like a certain amount of moral higher ground that they were afforded just for being in that position. For sure. But that's the thing. That's why I've always been fascinated about history. It's like it's never just black and white. Yeah. There's so much nuance that gets overlooked, especially if you were raised in public schools in America. SPEAKER_04: Exactly. Not a lot of nuance going on in those classrooms. Right. SPEAKER_05: And the white people swooped in and everything was great. Exactly. SPEAKER_04: So by the 1890s, the Indian Wars ended. The reservations popped up or they were just flat out massacred, like you said, or imprisoned. And this is when the Buffalo Soldiers started taking part in some of the land disputes out west with white settlers. Yeah. The removal of the Sooners in Oklahoma. That's huge. It is huge. SPEAKER_05: Because all of a sudden black regiments show up and they're like, you might be white, but you need to get out of here because you didn't follow the rules. That's right. That's a huge change from a decade or so before when those people would have been enslaved in the south. Right. It's a big deal. SPEAKER_04: And you mentioned San Juan from the Bob Marley song. SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that was when they entered the national stage for the first time. SPEAKER_04: Yeah, fighting in Cuba and Puerto Rico. Yeah, it's very confusing. SPEAKER_05: They fought at the Battle of San Juan Hill in Cuba and the Battle for San Juan in Puerto Rico. That's right. Under the 10th Regiment, under the command of a guy named General John Pershing. Yes. Who you might be familiar with is known as Black Jack Pershing, the famous World War I general. Yeah, I knew I had heard of him. SPEAKER_04: He was named Black Jack because he was in command of the black regiments, the 10th Cavalry. SPEAKER_05: And I mean, I think in the First World War, he was a little less willing to stand up and like advocate for them. SPEAKER_04: But by the time World War II came around, he was. Okay. SPEAKER_05: So I didn't hear about the World War II part, but that was a pretty big betrayal in World War I because he led the 10th Cavalry up San Juan Hill in Cuba. Along with the Rough Riders, along with white infantry, this battle was one of the first ones right before the turn of the 20th century. Yeah. Where there were, if you were standing back, like looking at this battle, there's black guys, there's white guys, there's black guys on horses. There's Spanish people coming down here. Like there's all these people, but the black soldiers and the white soldiers were intermingling, fighting together side by side. Yeah. And they won. And Teddy Roosevelt said, it was all me. I won the Battle of Cuba, San Juan in Cuba. Sure. But historians say, actually, no, these black regiments, specifically the 10th Cavalry, really won this battle in the Spanish American war down in Cuba. And it was huge. It put the Buffalo Soldiers on the map. Yeah. For really the first time ever in the American popular consciousness. And like black families around America, like you could go into their dining room and there'd be a print of like a painting of the Battle of San Juan with the Buffalo Soldiers storming the hill. Like one historian put it that they were their, that generation's Jackie Robinson and Joe Lewis. Yeah. Like they were the heroes. Like I was saying, they were the heroes at a time when Jim Crow laws were really coming into force. Right. At a really, really bleak time for black America. All of a sudden there's these Buffalo Soldiers that basically helped win the Spanish American war, fighting alongside white soldiers too and being equal in that respect. And that's why you'll see all those statues right next to Teddy Roosevelt's statues. SPEAKER_04: Exactly. SPEAKER_05: Exactly. SPEAKER_04: And you know what? I may have made up that part about General Pershing advocating more of World War II now that I think about it. SPEAKER_05: Oh, well, that was, I didn't get to the betrayal thing, Chuck. So when World War I rolled around, he was in charge of, I think, basically everybody in Europe. And he turned his back on his black regiment and all black soldiers and basically said, no, you guys fight in your own regiment, so I don't want you fighting side by side. And, but the French were like, hey, come fight with us. We'll command you. And that happened. That reminded me, the French were also the first ones to recognize officially the Native American code talkers. Even before the United States did. Oh, I remember that. And they also used black aviators in World War I too. So up with the French, historically speaking. That's right. There's a t-shirt. SPEAKER_04: They gave us those fries. Sure. And that bread. You mean freedom fries? SPEAKER_05: Uh-huh. Freedom bread. I feel like I'm talking a lot. Oh, yeah? Am I? SPEAKER_04: I mean, no more than usual. Okay. Freedom bread. So in World War II, the Buffalo Soldier units were used a lot. A lot of times, though, they were not on the front lines. They were stuck to administrative and support duties. But they did join in combat here and there on both the theaters in the war, mostly toward the end of World War II. But it was, you know, a lot of this, a lot of the good that you see coming out of what the Buffalo Soldiers did was foundation work. And groundwork for desegregating the military, for showing that these guys are just the same as white soldiers. They're just as capable. They fight just as bravely. And it really kind of laid that groundwork for the desegregation after the war. SPEAKER_05: Yes. Like a direct line for it. It's weird, but they basically, a way to put it is that white America said, okay, all right, if you, we'll give you a shot. You go out and serve in battle and let's see what you can do. And then maybe we'll see what, we'll see from there. And just by being given that one opportunity to show that they could do things that were presumed they couldn't, like act bravely and fight. And be a good soldier that was like, you know, good at being a soldier. They proved that all of these myths about how black people couldn't do these things were wrong. And that kind of thing opens up some people's eyes to, okay, well, what else do I think about black people that are wrong? And it's weird to think about because on a social level, that that's what it takes that people's minds can be changed like that. SPEAKER_05: But historically speaking, in retrospect, like that's how it happens. Yeah. Like one prejudice is tested and then all of a sudden other prejudices start falling slowly. Yeah. Kind of, kind of falling over like dominoes. Totally. Very, very slowly though. Yeah. Unfortunately. SPEAKER_04: Like dominoes, you can only picture falling fast. I know. Do that in slow mo. SPEAKER_05: It's almost a terrible analogy. Almost. So, it's crazy to think, but even though desegregation happened long before this, it takes a while for that to fully happen. SPEAKER_04: And there were Buffalo Soldier units in the Korean War. All black units in the Korean War. There was a, but it was 1948 I think that Truman signed this act desegregating the military. SPEAKER_05: Yeah. SPEAKER_04: And I think it was, it took three more years. 1951 was when the final one was disbanded, the 27th. SPEAKER_05: Right. But that's why I was saying you could trace a direct line of desegregation from the military. That was the first chance that black America had to show that it could be treated equally and that it could act equally. Yeah. And they showed that and it led to desegregation in the military. And then three years after the actual in practice desegregation of military regiments, there was the Brown versus Board of Education. Yeah. Ruling, which not in practice, but in theory desegregated schools. Right. So it went army, schools, and then eventually socially it just kept going. Yeah. But it was because of the Buffalo Soldiers and their service. Directly, undisputedly. SPEAKER_04: Oh yeah. I mean it's crazy to think as late as the Korean War though, some of those units were still fighting. Yeah it is crazy. Because when I think of MASH, it doesn't feel modern, but it doesn't feel like Buffalo Soldier territory. Right. SPEAKER_05: Yeah Buffalo Soldiers you think of like 19th century American West. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. SPEAKER_04: Yeah. You don't think of the 1950s Korea. No you don't think of Hawkeye and his gin still. I guess there was one black character on MASH with a very unfortunate name, but we won't talk about that. SPEAKER_05: I'm not familiar. No good. I don't remember. SPEAKER_04: Alright well I think we should take a break and come back and talk about what is to me. Okay. One of the cooler aspects of this whole story. The Bob Marley song. SPEAKER_05: No. We'll be right back. SPEAKER_04: Hey everybody. We want to talk to you a little bit about Canva and especially the Canva Brand Kit because you can keep your brand logos, your colors, your fonts and your icons and more all in one place. Yes the Canva Brand Kit is a handy toolbar right next to where you design presentations, videos and more. SPEAKER_05: You can just drag and drop your logo into a website design or click to get your social post colors on brand. Staying on brand has never been easier with Canva Brand Kit. Save time on repetitive design tasks and never start from a blank page again with Canva Brand Templates. SPEAKER_04: Design templates and lock logos, colors and fonts into place. Now anyone on your team can design on brand presentations, social posts and more quickly. Whether you work at a small or big brand in a team of two or two thousand, Canva empowers teams everywhere to design compelling on brand visual content together. So start designing today at Canva.com, the home for every brand. SPEAKER_03: Hi, I'm Dr. John White, WebMD's Chief Medical Officer and host of the Health Discovered podcast where we bring you fascinating stories and unique perspectives like our recent episode where we break down the myths to uncover the facts of type 1 diabetes. SPEAKER_02: A lot of people, very well meaning people who cared about me just thought that it was caused by diet or can be cured by diet and exercise. Especially right after I was diagnosed, people saying what was it that you ate or are you going to have to change your diet to get rid of this? There's still a lot of, you know, people see me pick up some kind of dessert and they're like, oh, should you really be eating that? Or thinking, you know, if they give sugar free things to people, that's helpful. Listen to Health Discovered on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. SPEAKER_06: You can also ask for concert and comedy tickets with a Live Nation wish list. Just sign in, add your favorite shows and share with friends and family. Get what you really want this year and gift the unforgettable at LiveNation.com slash gifts. That's LiveNation.com slash gifts. All right. We're back and we're going to talk about what I think is one of the coolest little parts here of this whole story, which I never knew. SPEAKER_04: If you've ever been to Sequoia National Park or Yosemite National Park, you've probably heard of the story of the Sequoia National Park or some other national parks out west and you're hiking a trail or driving down a road, you might have the Buffalo Soldiers to thank for that trail and those roads. Yeah. They, and it's one of their highlight achievements to me is once we establish the national parks, Teddy Roosevelt again, build statues of him. Right. You had to enforce this stuff because this was the first time we were like, wait a minute, this is protected land. You can't just come in here and take the timber or hunt, you know, the animals. Right. There are rules now. You set up like, you set aside grazing land. SPEAKER_05: Sure. You set aside national parks. Libertarians, they take issue with that kind of thing. And you need to have Buffalo Soldiers to fight them off. That's right. SPEAKER_04: So from 1891 to 1913, about 25 years or so, some of these black regiments were essentially the first park rangers. Yeah. They didn't have that name at the time, but they kept the poachers at bay, stopped the illegal grazing and the timber thieves. They fought wildfires. SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I didn't get a chance to like really look into this, but I wonder what 1913 wildfire fighting was like. I'll bet it was real dicey. Bucket brigade stuff probably. 2020 firefighting is dicey, wildfire fighting, but 100 years ago, man, I'll bet it was... I can't imagine. Good Lord. SPEAKER_04: But like I said with the trails and stuff, a lot of some of the more significant trails and roads... Some of the buildings? Yeah, some of the older cabins, they were built and constructed by Buffalo Soldiers, which is just super cool. SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so if you find a building in Yosemite or Sequoia National Parks that's... From 1891 to 1913. SPEAKER_04: Yes, then it was probably built by Buffalo Soldiers. SPEAKER_04: Or hiking a trail. Yeah. This is all just super cool. SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it is pretty cool. They also rode bicycles around the place too, which is kind of neat. Yeah. Yeah. So Chuck, the last Buffalo Soldier, and I mean like original Buffalo Soldier, Mark Matthews, he died on September 6, 2005. He was interred at Arlington National Cemetery. He was 111 years old, and he actually fought under General Pershing in the 10th Cavalry on the hunt for Pancho Villa. Oh, yeah? SPEAKER_04: Yeah. I think... I don't know if we mentioned that. How many Medals of Honor? Were there 23? I saw 23. SPEAKER_05: The National Museum of African American History says 18. I'm going to go with them. All right. Somewhere between 18 and 23, let's say that. SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so I guess the moral of the story is that they did provide this direct line to desegregation, not only through the Army, but like you were saying, all through America. SPEAKER_04: But sadly, a lot of them did exit the military. Some of them did have a little higher status and a leg to stand on. Right. Many of them didn't. There was a study of lynchings in the U.S. that found that black military veterans were targeted and lynched more than non-veteran black people with the idea that it was a real threat in the racist white South for a black man to leave the Army with some rank and some status. And guns. Feeling good. Guns. Feeling good about themselves. SPEAKER_05: Don't forget in the Tulsa Massacre episode, it was the World War I vets who were like, no, we're going to go defend this boy from being lynched. Right. With guns. They showed up with guns. I think there, I remember in the Black Panther episode too, they traced a direct line of this sense of like, you need to defend yourself and protect yourself with firearms. They traced that directly to World War I veterans. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So there is a terrible logic to that, I guess. Yeah, for sure. SPEAKER_04: There was also a terrible senator and governor of Mississippi named James Vardaman, who was just straight up white supremacist, like no matter how you slice it. You could have just said senator from Mississippi. In 1917. Sure. He spoke to the U.S. Senate and he really kind of crystallizes how they felt about black veterans in 1917. On the Senate floor, he said, once you impress the Negro with the fact that he is defending the flag and inflate his untortured soul with military airs, his political rights must be respected. And he wasn't saying like, and that's great. Yeah, so let's respect that. Yeah, this was a warning, basically. Right. And he was over, overlooked. SPEAKER_05: They didn't listen to him, ultimately, because they did continue having black soldiers as soldiers and eventually desegregated, which led to desegregation in America, which is pretty great. That's right. SPEAKER_04: I would love to hear from some current African American military personnel, because I want to know what the current sort of temperature is as an active soldier. As an active service person. SPEAKER_05: Oh, what the racism is like in the military? Yeah. SPEAKER_04: Sure. I'm sure, you know, that there'll be different versions of that story, depending on who you're in contact with and what your particular, like, platoon is like. Yeah, I wonder though, because the military is like some kind of weird simulacrum of American society. SPEAKER_05: It is. I wonder if it's more racist or less racist. I think there's a chance it could go either way. I mean, my guess is less. SPEAKER_04: You know, my, like I said, my brother-in-law before is a Marine and pretty high up, you could say. And every time, I've been on these Marine bases a lot, and it all seems like they're all sort of, you know, got that groupthink going on. Right. Like, we're just Marines. Like, none of us are a color. We're green. Well, I've seen Full Metal Jacket. SPEAKER_05: Right. And there are a lot of racist stuff in there. No, I'm sure. Okay. Yeah. Could go either way. It could go either way. I would like to hear that as well. I'd also like to hear from any Native American listeners to know what they were taught about Buffalo Soldiers too. What was passed down within the different tribes. Yeah. Because they contacted all sorts of different tribes, from the Lakota Sioux up in the north down to the Apaches in New Mexico and Mexico. Yeah. Yeah. Teach us, everyone. Yeah. SPEAKER_04: And what was the name of the tribe on Listener Mail? SPEAKER_05: If you want to know more about Buffalo Soldiers, there's a lot of really great stuff to read. And you can't really go wrong with a guy named Frank Schubert, who is a scholar of them, of Buffalo Soldiers. And he's got a lot of articles on the web and, I believe, some books too. And since I said Frank Schubert, it's time for Listener Mail. Oh, no, it's not. SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's right. You know what it's time for. Hit him, Chuck. It is time for Administrative Details. So we haven't done this in a little while. If you're new to the show, Administrative Details is where we take a couple of minutes. We're going to do this on this episode and the next. You got that straight. To read out some thank yous. Tell them, Chuck. For some of the kindnesses that people throw our way. That's right. Whether they be physical totems. Like... What? T-shirts and buttons and... Okay. To confectionaries like cookies and pastries and cheeses. I like that. What I did not do on this one, and I feel bad because you probably did, is write down all the names of all the postcards and letters. I wrote down the ones that I... SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think I've got basically everybody. And we should say we almost always miss somebody. Yeah. Or a few. So if we don't say your name and you have not been thanked in a previous Administrative Detail, please get in touch with us so we can correct that. That's right. SPEAKER_04: And if you have a letter or a postcard that is on my desk, I'll include those in the next batch because now I feel bad. Bam. All right, let's go through these. SPEAKER_05: Oh, and there's also some people who I don't have names for, but we do have the items. So you can also write in and be like, that was me. That's right. For example, the very nice person who gave us almond cookies and whiskey cake at our Orlando show. Oh, that's right. Our live show in Orlando. Don't remember or don't have the name of who gave us that. But thank you for him. SPEAKER_04: Katie from Davis, California, sent us some cool little notebooks. They were little notebooks like Schemes was like the title of one of them. Oh, right. Where you can write down your schemes, band names, just sort of fun names on the covers of these notebooks. SPEAKER_05: Yeah, thanks a lot. A huge, huge thanks, as always, to our good friends, Hillary and Mike Lozar. And they're good friends, the people at Flathead Lake Cheese for all the cheese. That's right. Flathead Lake Cheese is far and away my favorite cheese in the world. It's good cheese. They make very good cheese. You guys cannot go wrong. Just go get some Flathead Lake Cheese and you'll love it. Yeah, a lot of the, I don't know if they specialize in Gouda, SPEAKER_04: but we seem to be on the Gouda mailing list. SPEAKER_05: They make a hopped Gouda that is my favorite. Have you had it? Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. It's yum. It has hops in it. Like it's a beer, but it's cheese. SPEAKER_04: And while we're on the Lozars, Hillary and Mike and Coop, I just got this today. They sent us aprons. Oh, yeah. Word butcher. Yeah. Aprons. That is so appropriate. So it's a knife going into the lettering of a word butcher because I don't know if you guys know this, but we are well known to mispronounce everything. Yeah, to butcher words. SPEAKER_05: I knew you were going to do that. So, Smadi from France sent us a tea card with some L'Etout Marmot tea attached. Thank you, Smadi. SPEAKER_04: Yeah. Jess Vow sent us his game that he designed, Philosophy the Game, or better yet, Drunk Philosophy. Nice. That's a great name. Katie Barnes from the Barnes Made Soap Company SPEAKER_05: for the wonderful soap. All of them are really good, but I strongly recommend the Autumn Fig and the Mariner Brine Bar. Good stuff. Oh, you can head over to Barnes Made, B-A-R-N-E-S-M-A-D-E dot com for some of Katie's soaps. SPEAKER_04: Becky in France sent us planetary coasters that she made, and her studio is cepheidstudio.com. That is C-E-P-H-E-I-D studio.com. If you want some planetary coasters, they are pretty spacey and awesome. SPEAKER_05: Kevin Reuter gave us Basil Hayden and Bullet Rye. You remember that? At our show at the Bell House. And he even wrapped them up as Christmas presents. That's right. Which is just lovely. Thanks a lot, Kevin. And funny enough, at the show, somebody asked us what drink we would want to have on a desert island if we could only have one. And both of us were saying gin drinks, and he was like, I guess I guessed wrong with the Basil Hayden and the Bullet. And I was like, no, dude, you nailed it. We're all inclusive. SPEAKER_04: Our buddy Van Nostrand, I feel like he sent us more than this, so if you have something else, let us know. We just hung out with him and his wonderful wife, Leah, in Seattle. He sent us some records. Some awesome records. Smurfs, Disco Duck, Lawrence Welk, and the John Denver Muppets Christmas. SPEAKER_05: And you know what? Van Nostrand gave us books before, and one of them was about... Oh, I can't say yet, because the live show's not out. But he gave us a book about the live show years ago, and I never got around to reading it. They reminded me after the show. They were like, you know, we sent you that book, you dummy. I said, I'll have to read it now. SPEAKER_04: Will and Katie Lynn Lee sent us coffee from Coffee by Design. So nice. Dee Lish. SPEAKER_05: Let's see, Nicole Collins, D.O., Doctor of Osteopathy, sent us a copy of her book, Insight, which is on vision, like real vision, and the miracle that is vision. So check it out. It's called Insight. SPEAKER_04: I thought you were going to say D.O., Doctor of Metal. SPEAKER_05: I was... I was delivered by a D.O. Oh, really? And one of the things they do is they adjust you. Like, you're a baby, and they adjust you like a chiropractor when you're born. I was born breach, so the D.O. adjusted me in reverse order, and apparently everyone in the delivery room gave him a golf clap afterward. SPEAKER_04: And you waved your hand and said, thank you, everyone. Yeah, thank you. SPEAKER_05: I have a taste for this applause thing now. SPEAKER_04: Fart, gurgled fart. Indigo Proof from Portland sent me a gift certificate for one free denim repair. Nice. Because I complained about my Levi's blowing out. So they said, send me those jeans, and we'll fix them for you. That's Indigo Proof. And where else do they fix jeans? Portland, Oregon. SPEAKER_05: That is a jean fix in town, for sure. I got a super old one from not this past October, but the October before last, Chuck. Wow. Do you remember Kathy with a K-tosh at, I believe, our Phoenix show, or our Salt Lake City show? One of the two. You talking about? Gave us lassos. Yeah. Real live lassos. Rope and rope. And she said, go on YouTube and learn how to lasso now. Yeah. And I've yet to do that, but I still have my lasso. So thanks a lot, Kathy. Me too. We appreciate you. SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's not only cool, because I will try and learn that one day, but it looks cool hanging on a wall. SPEAKER_05: For sure. And also, I think Kathy is a postal worker, so hopefully she dug our going postal episode. I haven't heard from her. That's right. Email us, Kathy, and let us know how we did. I have a correction to read, SPEAKER_04: but I'll just wait for listener mail for that one. Oh, yeah. SPEAKER_05: I think that was me. SPEAKER_04: That was my bad. SPEAKER_05: Was it just you? I think so. Somebody else made it seem like it was me too. SPEAKER_04: How many more should we do for this one? SPEAKER_05: Oh, let's each do three more. OK. SPEAKER_04: Anna Parker, she is a painter and muralist who did this lovely painting of my three dogs, two of which are now dearly departed. But it's very, very sweet. And speaking of which, you can find those, her work, at sweettmurals.com. SPEAKER_05: Oh, yes, very nice. Let's see. Lance Roper, who's my boy from Toledo, who is from Actual Coffee in Toledo, sent me some really good coffee. So check out Actual Coffee in Toledo. Actual Coffee. Yes. SPEAKER_04: Betty Epperly sent us voodoo dolls of us. SPEAKER_05: Oh, I want to know who made that. Those are so cool. They are so...yeah. SPEAKER_04: They're, like, really cute, and they're laden with little Easter eggs. Like, I'm holding all kinds of crazy things that all relate to shows. I'm holding a magic mushroom. Really? Yeah. Well, that's for my show. But they had no pins, we should point out, so they weren't voodoo dolls that were out to harm us. No. Her son Josh introduced her to the show. And her husband. SPEAKER_05: Way to go, Josh. So thanks, Betty. Momo's riding my foot on mine, too. Oh, really? Yeah. That's very cute. Let's see. The wooden egg and special egg coasters, S-Y-S-K egg coasters, from the very kind people at Good Egg World. Yeah? SPEAKER_04: Yeah. All right, I got one more for this dish. Adam Peterson, this was a really cool gift. He sent us two bottles of Coca-Cola from the very last run of returnable bottles that Coca-Cola ever did. Oh, wow. They were small, family-run bottler in Winona, Minnesota. And he said his in-laws had run it since 1932. So these were the last run of returnables that came off the line. And they're even stamped with their little family bottler name and everything. Oh, that's really cool. SPEAKER_05: It's very cool. All right, last one. This one came from the Toronto show. Guy named Phil Bowen gave us each a prosthetic eye. Oh, man, that's one of the best ever. SPEAKER_04: One of the best gifts either one of us has ever gotten. SPEAKER_05: It's so cool. So thanks a lot for our prosthetic eyes, Phil. We still have them. I think there's a picture of us wearing them, too. Yeah. OK. If you want to get in touch with us, just to say hi or to send us something, it doesn't matter. You can go on to stuffyoushouldknow.com and follow our social links there, I think. And as always, you can send us an email. Wrap it up, spank it on the bottom, and send it off to stuffpodcasts at iHeartRadio.com. SPEAKER_01: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This holiday season, ask for concert and comedy tickets. SPEAKER_06: Create your wish list at livenation.com. 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