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SPEAKER_02: Hey, and welcome to the short stuff.I'm Josh.There's Chuck and Ben's here too, sitting in for Dave.And this is short stuff, the new reality.
SPEAKER_03: That's right.I'm glad that you found this because I have experienced this in a slightly different way, and I never knew that it was a thing, and now I do.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I had no idea it was a thing either.I don't remember where I heard of this.I'm guessing Yumi.It just seems like the kind of thing she would have sent me.But we have to shout out McGill University, IFL Science and Science Times for helping round this idea out or this story out.But we're talking about something called the Mariko Aoki phenomenon, which is a very specific phenomenon.It's where some people go into a bookstore and are overwhelmed with the urge, sometimes an urgent urge, to poop in that bookstore.Not like in the aisles of the bookstore, but to go to the bathroom in the bookstore to poop.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.So here's my story.In high school, still one of my very best friends, Jim Issa, you know Jim, Jim and I had an afternoon radio show, which was over the intercom of the school.And it was basically, instead of the principal reading the daily announcements, we asked if we could take it over and round it out with jokes and top ten lists and what have you.So we had WRHS was our dumb little show.
SPEAKER_02: So, wait, this was officially sanctioned.It wasn't pirate school radio?
SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.It was us in the principal's office, like, on the microphone.
SPEAKER_02: That's cute.
SPEAKER_03: Every day.I mean, that was, looking back, it was the start of Stuff You Should Know, which is funny.
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_03: But we did, when we would meet to write the show every day, we would meet in the empty auditorium where they did school plays.And every time we were in there, both of us had to poop. And we used to laugh about it and talk about it.And now that I see sort of some of the similarities between that empty, quiet auditorium and sort of a large, maybe cavernous, quiet bookstore, I now know this is a thing.
SPEAKER_02: I was not expecting a personal anecdote from you for this one.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.I mean, this goes back to the 80s, Jim, and he'll laugh when I tell him this is an actual thing.
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's appropriate because the Mariko Aoki phenomenon goes back to the 80s, too.
SPEAKER_03: All right.Yeah.So we should probably talk about where it came from, right?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.It came from a Japanese woman named Mariko Aoki.
SPEAKER_03: That's right.And she sent a letter to a magazine in, what, 1985 in the issue of Han no Zashi.Is that right?Close enough.How would you say it?
SPEAKER_02: Han no Zashi. Isn't that what I said?Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.And she wrote a letter to the, you know, like a letter to the editor kind of thing where she said, I'm not sure why, but since about two or three years ago, whenever I go to a bookstore, I'm struck by an urge to move my bowels.They printed it, just the letter to the editor, and they got so many responses from people saying, me too, that the next issue had a 14-page feature article on the headline was the phenomenon currently shaking the bookstore industry.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.And it became like such a thing that it took her name, Mariko Aoki.Even though there has been, people have turned up mentions of this kind of thing as far back as the 50s.I could not find any original source material of that, but I think I'm willing to take IFL Science on their word if they were the one where I got it from. But in Japan, it kicked off like a trend.Right.So there were kind of like game show informal studies of what exactly was going on.And they did turn up some data, not exactly like, you know, peer review worthy data.But they found that about 10 percent of the respondents in Japan said, feel the urge to poop when they go into the bookstore.
So the Marioki Aoki phenomenon covers about 10% of the population.I'm squarely in the 90%.You're apparently in the 10%.
SPEAKER_03: Well, I mean, I haven't tested it with a bookstore, but there are similarities between, for us, it always felt like, like Jim's theory was that it was a big, being alone in a very big, large, empty, quiet space.
SPEAKER_02: Like a colon.
SPEAKER_03: I guess so.But, you know, a bookstore isn't empty, but it's not like going to a concert.It is generally pretty quiet.So and there's like some there's a privacy aspect, I think, to a bookstore.I mean, I'm thinking larger bookstores, not like, you know, the tiny mom and pops, which I love.So I don't know if that was his theory.So I guess I'm in that 10 percent.I'll go to a bookstore and I'll let you know.
SPEAKER_02: We'll report back for sure. As a matter of fact, we should live stream it on stuff you should know, like one of our social media.
SPEAKER_03: It's true.Oh, my God.You think I'll be right back?Should we take a break?Yeah.All right.We'll come back and talk about some of the theories right after this.
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SPEAKER_03: I don't remember that part.I don't even know if we went and pooped or if it was just like, oh, I got to poop.
SPEAKER_02: I see.I see.Okay.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, anyway, we're back.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're back.There is no, like, serious science probably about this, but there are a lot of pretty interesting theories.And one of them is something that we've talked about.In fact, we did a whole show sort of, didn't we, about the gut-brain axis?Yeah. We did.We did something about like when you approach the front door of your house.
SPEAKER_02: That's the brain-bladder connection.
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.I think this is kind of similar though, right?
SPEAKER_02: No, totally.I think the second theory, the smell of books, which we'll get to, is more brain-bladder connection.But the gut-brain axis would have come up in, I guess like, I can't remember what it was, but we talked about like a whole episode about how there's neurons in your gut. And like your brain and your gut, your central nervous system and your enteric nervous system communicate to one another.And so that's probably the likeliest explanation for why somebody would feel the urge to poop in a bookstore.Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.There are some other, you know, to me, I think it's all of these things added together.There is that.There is also the sort of connection of like people like reading on the toilet has long been something that people do.Right.People are on their phones now.But in the old days, you had that magazine rack.I still got a magazine rack next to my toilet. And we'll read a good magazine so that that connection, maybe that subconscious thing of when you're among those books, your sphincter just unlocks just a little bit, maybe.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.So that whatever it was, whatever, if it's like the smell of books, that's kind of usually put forth. So whatever it is that you associate with a bookstore and then you poop in the bookstore, that's where your gut brain axis would take over and you develop this association.So when you walk into the bookstore, your brain goes, hey, gut, we're in a bookstore.You better get busy pooping.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, makes sense.Another one, of course, is a bookstore.Oftentimes, there's a lot of squatting.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: If you want a book down on that bottom shelf... or you want to peruse for a little while on the bottom, you're going to be squatting down.And humankind didn't evolve to poop like we poop now.You're supposed to squat.And if you've ever been in that dead squat position with your butt just barely above the ground and all your weight, like everything lines up in such a way to where your body goes, oh, it's go time.
SPEAKER_02: It's time.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: And it goes...
SPEAKER_03: So you're in there already.It's quiet.You got the smell of the books.You're squatting.Yeah.
SPEAKER_02: How could anybody not poop?
SPEAKER_03: You may have a coffee.
SPEAKER_02: That's a big one.A lot of people say, yeah, people drink coffee in bookstores and coffee makes you poop.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I think it's like all this stuff sort of adds up to, oh, my God, I'm in a bookstore.I've got to go.
SPEAKER_02: There's another theory that isn't specifically identified as from Japan.But if it's not from Japan, I will eat my hat.And I don't even have a hat.I'll go buy a hat to eat it if this isn't a Japanese theory.That because life is stressful, when you walk into a bookstore, the bookstore is very calm.And so you feel relieved.And so you want to relieve yourself.
SPEAKER_03: I don't think I've ever seen you wear a hat.
SPEAKER_02: I've got like a Mud Hens hat that, man, my hair has to be pretty messed up for me to wear it, but that's my hat.
SPEAKER_03: I don't think I've ever seen you in a hat in 16 years.
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's by design.
SPEAKER_03: I've seen you in shorts maybe twice.
SPEAKER_02: That was by design as well.What did you think?
SPEAKER_03: You've got some nice legs.
SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
SPEAKER_03: And then, of course, you have to think about or at least consider the frequency illusion aspect of this.It's a type of confirmation bias.Whereas once you know this is a thing, you start to just it's in your head all of a sudden and you're making that connection where it previously didn't exist.So, you know, you have to kind of consider that for sure.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what skeptics say.They say there's no such thing as the Marioki Aoki phenomenon, that actually it's it's people just have heard of it.And maybe she had some sort of Pavlovian training where like the smell of books made her want to poop.But just talking about it, it getting published and becoming a thing in Japan, then traveling around the world. People started saying like, oh yeah, I've pooped in bookstores too.So then anytime they poop in a bookstore from that point on, they notice it.It confirms their theory that they're susceptible to the Marioki Aoki phenomenon.And it just becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy.But at the same time, they're also ignoring all the times they go to the bookstore and don't poop.Or they go to Petco and have to poop.
Which you don't want to do.Although you could just poop in the aisle and blame it on a dog. But still, that's part of the frequency illusion.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.So I'm curious to hear from people, two types of people, people that have experienced this, whether in a bookstore or like my situation, like a large empty room, or bookstore employees who are like, dude, you don't know the nightmare that we live.
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.I can imagine.
SPEAKER_03: You know?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.I hadn't thought about that.Man, spare a thought for the bookstore employees, huh?
SPEAKER_03: Wasn't there a Seinfeld where George had to go to the bathroom in a bookstore?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.He found the pastoral scenes very conducive to, and then Elaine cuts them off.He had to buy a book because he took it in the bathroom.
SPEAKER_03: That's funny.
SPEAKER_02: There you have it.Yeah.A book of impressionist paintings. If you, well, no, this is not a regular Stuff You Should Know episode, even though in this episode, we found out the origin of Stuff You Should Know.Even I didn't know the origin story.And since I'm so hyped, I think that can only mean that short stuff is out.
SPEAKER_00: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
