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I'm Josh.There's Chuck.Ben.Dave. Giddy up.
SPEAKER_04: All right.So this is one that is a little frustrating because I found over the years, I think we both agree that it's so hard sometimes to find follow-ups to legal matters.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
SPEAKER_04: Like there's a lot of hay made when a lawsuit is put out there or introduced or whatever.But then it's always so hard to find resolution.And we're talking about The fact that in July 2022, a man in California filed a lawsuit against Mars Incorporated because of Skittles and because specifically an additive called titanium dioxide, class action lawsuit that has health risks.Yeah. I tried to find a follow-up, and what I saw, that that was dismissed.Oh, was it?I didn't see that.In November 22, without prejudice, which means a new lawsuit can happen, and another woman in summer last year, in 2023, like a year later, again in California, has sued again, and I don't know the status of that one.
SPEAKER_03: The reason they're picking on Skittles in particular, it seems like, is because back in 2016, Skittles said to the world, well, I should say Mars Inc.said to the world, hey, we're not going to use titanium dioxide anymore.We're going to phase it out of our candies, specifically Skittles.And here we are in 2024, and Skittles still has titanium dioxide.In fact... The candy makers or food producers who use titanium dioxide in their products aren't even required to list it as titanium dioxide.It's listed as titanium dioxide, which I take to be a giant F you to all the people who filed lawsuits against Mars for that.
SPEAKER_04: What I don't get is why they would make some big announcement about getting it out of their candy and then keeping it there.
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, but I'll bet the CEO that was in charge during that period is no longer there.
SPEAKER_04: I bet you're right.
SPEAKER_03: They were like, we have bad news.Like, we can't make Skittles without titanium dioxide.And he said, what?
SPEAKER_04: So should we talk about titanium dioxide?
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
SPEAKER_04: All right.Titanium is an element in the Earth's crust.It is a naturally occurring thing.Not anything unusual about titanium, but when it reacts – interacts with oxygen, rather, it forms a white powder, a very fine white powder called titanium dioxide that evidently is used as a whitening agent in a lot of processed foods.We're using Skittles because there was a lawsuit, but this stuff's in a lot of stuff.
SPEAKER_03: It is.And the reason it's a whitening agent is because it reflects light so well, specifically all types of light.So it appears white, but it reflects it so well.It's used as an ingredient in sunscreen and it's used as an ingredient kind of as sunscreen, UV protectant and other stuff like makeup and toothpaste.Right. So it is everywhere.The thing is, is titanium dioxide, it's a naturally occurring thing.Like you said, titanium is natural.So is titanium dioxide.It's just what happens when titanium comes in contact with oxygen, right?
The problem with it being used in the food industry and personal care industry is that it's used in a specific form as titanium dioxide nanoparticles.And we're talking like nano nanoparticles.The little tiny particles of titanium dioxide that appear in your food are about 100 nanometers across. your hair is 80,000 nanometers across.And because they're so small, they can scatter light.Right.That's the appropriate response to that.The smaller they are, the more effective they are at scattering light.So that's why they want to use those really tiny nanoparticles.But the concern is because they're so small, it can go to all sorts of different parts of your body.
And if it starts to accumulate, it can cause all sorts of problems.That's the basis of that lawsuit.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they can get the bloodstream.What I want to know is what does that stuff do for a Skittle?
SPEAKER_03: I don't know because it's not like Skittles is white.There ain't no white Skittle.No, I think there actually is a white like special Skittle, like a limited edition.But this is used in regular Skittles.Maybe it makes them reflective.I don't know.
SPEAKER_04: Okay.So we mentioned the nanoparticles.They can get in the bloodstream.You said they can accumulate.They can accumulate in your organs, which is pretty scary, especially – I mean any organ, but especially when you're talking about one of your filtering mechanisms in your body like your liver or your kidney.If you're trying to filter things and more bad things are going in, that's a problem.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.So we should say specifically there is no – peer-reviewed evidence that nanoparticles of titanium dioxide migrate to your liver, your kidneys, or that they accumulate there.There's no evidence whatsoever.And that's what the Titanium Producers Association says.They like to point that out.The Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers Association website says there's nothing that says that food-grade titanium dioxide is harmful to human health.Just want to put that out there, everybody.That's what they say. So it makes sense to be skeptical because what we're talking about here are nothing but animal studies, almost exclusively mouse studies.
And they do cause damage in mice for sure.And they have been shown to inflame tissues in humans when inhaled.You're not inhaling titanium dioxide nanoparticles when you eat Skittles. But if you put everything together, yes, it's good to be skeptical, but it's also good to be aware of the concept of xenobiotics and their effect on the human body, as well as the corporate history of food manufacturers putting unsafe, harmful products in food long after we've figured out, like, no, this is probably a problem.So it's good to use your brain, but also, you know, know, like... There's no like smoking gun here that says, yes, titanium dioxide is going to wreck your liver and give you cancer.That's just not there yet.But it's possible enough that people are like, just get that out of there.Who cares how extra white your, well, you're not eating Tide, but your Colgate is.
SPEAKER_04: You just COA'd.You did a both side COA.That's amazing.
SPEAKER_03: That explains why I feel faint.
SPEAKER_04: All right, we'll take a break.I'm going to give Josh some smelling salts, and we'll be right back.
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SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, they're great.
SPEAKER_04: The FDA says that titanium dioxide as a food additive, the food grade stuff, doesn't exceed – if it doesn't exceed 1% of the food's weight, then it's all fine and dandy.However, there are companies and nations and continents that are getting rid of this stuff.In 2015, Dunkin' Donuts said, you know what, we're not going to use titanium dioxide anymore anymore. And our powdered sugar toppings, the EU, of course, they're always first in line saying, we don't need that stuff.Let's just get rid of it.Let's ban it.
SPEAKER_03: They're always the first in line saying that can harm people who we care about.
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.Dang socialist, nanny state.So you mentioned that the titanium, you know, big titanium dioxide is like, hey, you guys don't need to worry about this.It's in such small levels.It's not a big deal.And like, you know, you'd have to be a real small kid to really get the worst effect.Like, oh, I don't know, kids who eat Skittles.
SPEAKER_03: Right.Yeah, that's a big one.So the Environmental Working Group released a paper a little while ago that said that this stuff is in thousands of children's sweets as an ingredient.And yeah, if you're small, if this stuff does accumulate at all, the smaller the body, the more impact that accumulation is probably going to have.Right. And it has been shown to make it through the gut.Like it does make it into the body beyond just your digestive system.But as the Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers Association points out, food grade titanium dioxide called E-171. It can't have more than 40% of titanium dioxide to it, the nanoparticles, I should say.And that, I guess, poison.org, which is the National Poison Control Center's website, said that.
SPEAKER_04: Oh, I thought that was the band's website.Is that not right?No.That's poison.edu.
SPEAKER_03: That's poison.edu.net. Um, so the, the national poison control center says that one 10th of 1% of the titanium dioxide that is in your food stuff, which is just 1% of the food by weight.So a very, very tiny fraction passes through the gut and makes it into the rest of your body.So there's just, again, two ways of looking at this.It does get out of your gut and into the rest of your body. where it may accumulate if you eat enough Skittles or Starbursts or something like that.But there's no studies yet that show that it actually causes any harm.
SPEAKER_04: My whole deal is like, just why?Just don't put it in there and no one will ever notice or care.
SPEAKER_03: Frankly, if Dunkin' Donuts can do without it for their powdered donuts, then you can do it for Skittles because I genuinely don't understand why it's in there.I saw one place where it's used as a flavor enhancer. Everyone else says it's a color enhancer.So maybe it has something to do with the flavor of Skittles.I don't know.I also saw that if it is used as a flavor enhancer, it's mustard.And I don't remember any mustard flavored Skittles.
SPEAKER_04: gross that could be pretty gross it could also be great i haven't decided yet but yeah i'm with you i don't understand why it has to be in there like i i think it's one of those things where no consumer would notice and of course i say that and then a bag of skittles comes out like a like a solid weird lump like a pebbly brick with hair growing on it i'm like what the hell is this yeah i mean i don't need skittles anyway and uh ruby doesn't eat a lot of candy It's weird.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.I've always liked candy.I like fruit candy.I like chocolate candy.I do like Skittles.I love Starburst.They have it in there, too.So, yeah, I mean, I'm probably riddled with titanium dioxide.I think you'll be right.You got anything else?
SPEAKER_04: I got nothing else.
SPEAKER_03: Okay.Well, then we're done talking about titanium dioxide for now.And short stuff is out.
SPEAKER_02: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
