SPEAKER_01: TED Audio Collective. I'm Elise Hugh.You're listening to TED Talks Daily.A wake-up call today about how our very human need for belonging, meaning, and purpose can be co-opted by sinister motives.In her 2023 talk at TEDx Portland, former member of the cult NXIVM and one of the three whistleblowers that led to its downfall, Sarah Edmondson, shares the story of how she wound up in this dangerous cult as a warning for the rest of us after the break. Support for TED Talks Daily comes from Capital One Bank.With no fees or minimums, banking with Capital One is the easiest decision in the history of decisions.Even easier than deciding to listen to another episode of your favorite podcast.And with no overdraft fees, is it even a decision?That's banking reimagined.
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SPEAKER_00: I have always been drawn to community. Being in community, building communities that I believe in.I've been a lifelong learner, seeker, total joiner.Brownies, drama club, summer camp.I was raised by fantastic hippie parents who taught me the importance of making the world better.Also bring snacks, be ready for sing-alongs.I'm incredibly organized, I'm a big connector.I've been told I have big cruise director energy. No clipboard today.I was also in a cult for 12 years.
And I'm here today to protect you all from the same shit show that I went through.Yeah, you want this. My talk is rooted in awareness.I want to help you to navigate all the culty groups out there so that you can seek safely.So, in 2005, I was an aspiring actress slash waitress when I was invited to NXIVM, a personal and professional development program with a seemingly altruistic mission to change the world one person at a time. Big red flag.And I truly found an incredible community of like-minded humanitarians and a place where I could help people set and achieve goals and bust through their limiting beliefs.It was wonderful.But it was also a facade for something sinister, something that would take over my life slowly, over a decade, with a slow build of coercion, obligation, gaslighting, and control. It wasn't just a highly toxic workplace.
This was a high control group, AKA a cult.But I couldn't see it.There were so many great things about the community clouding my judgment.I rose up the ranks, became one of the company's star recruiters.It was incredible.I thought that I'd found the best club ever.My people. A chosen family, but more importantly, a place where I had community and belonging.Those were things I was looking for ever since I was a little girl.I had actually wandered onto the path of self-reflection and transformation without any tools for navigating or protecting myself.
But I was in deep.My actual friends and family saw less and less of me.As I'd spent more money on time and trainings, my worldview got more narrow. My language became coded.I sounded like a NXIVM robot.I was on the top of this grifty iceberg, a NXIVM pyramid.And it truly haunts me to this day, how many people I brought in, my friends and family, who in turn brought in their friends and family through leveraged trust, till I had grown an organization so big I could open the first center in Canada, which was something I used to be incredibly proud of.Some of those people are still loyal to the cult to this day. It all came to a head when I was invited to a secret NXIVM offshoot, a badass boot camp for women only, sold to me as empowerment when it was actually enslavement.Just a way for Keith Raniere, the company's founder, to brand women as if he owned them.
Yeah.He also blackmailed many of them into sex.I managed to dodge that bullet. Thankfully, it was the branding that woke me up.I mean, one minute you're selling a goals program, and the next minute you're sweaty and naked on a table being branded in a secret sorority.And it wasn't the moment of the branding itself.Nope, not when I was sliced open without anesthetic.But later, when I found out that the symbol on my body was not that of the four elements, as I'd been told, but actually Keith Ranieri's initials in a cryptic monogram.Yeah, I had his initials on my body. He literally thought he could own me.
He was wrong, and I was out.But, yes, thank you.Wait.What happened to me was just the beginning.And when we found out what else was going on behind closed doors, I'm talking crimes ranging from blackmail, forced labor, child pornography, sex trafficking, I was mortified. So I went to the authorities with a band of fellow shocked ex-members, and we blew the proverbial whistle.But they didn't do anything.Fell on deaf ears because they didn't know what they were looking at.So we went to the press.Look, Mom and Dad, I'm on the front page of the New York Times.
It's not exactly what I was imagining my life would be when I started out as an actress, but here we are.After that, the rest is cult history. a dramatic arrest in Mexico, a six-week trial, a four-hour deliberation, and ultimately, a 120-year prison sentence for NXIVM's founder.Yes, thank you.Thank you.Big win. And just for the record, by all cult expert assessments, Keith Raniere is now known as one of the most dangerous cult leaders of all time, on par with Jim Jones, whose rise to power culminated in the death of 900 people, 300 of which were children, for drinking poisoned flavor aid, which is where the term drink the Kool-Aid comes from, by the way.And FYI, if they hadn't have drunk it, they would have been shot.It wasn't a choice.We don't use that phrase properly.
It's called a bounded choice, coercive control.Needless to say, Keith Raniere was not the noble, humanitarian, ethical genius I thought I was vouching for all those years.Quite the opposite, actually. Nobody signs up for trauma and tragedy on purpose.In fact, a wise man once said, nobody joins a cult on purpose.They join something good.I was on my path, I was a seeker, and I got burned, literally.I was blackmailed, branded, humiliated, and I got out.But I couldn't just leave.I had to be as loud about why I was leaving as when I was recruiting.
And I've been out for six years, almost to the day, actually.Happy uncultivarsary to me.Thank you.And you could say my story's out there in raw, gritty, personal detail.Thank you, HBO.I have been to hell and back in high definition.And I could definitely glean some nuggets for you about resiliency and trauma, turning lemons into lemonade, But today I'm here for a different reason.I want to share with you cult literacy.Cult literacy.
New thing for all of us.I want to share some lessons learned so that you can seek safely.I want to show you how cults prey on your humanity and leave no one immune.Good plan?Okay.So first, you have to know that these things are everywhere. Cults are everywhere, and they don't look like what you think anymore.I'm not talking about shaved heads and drinking goat's blood in some Stanley Kubrick horror movie, eyes wide shut, masks and robes, no.Cults thrive by disguising themselves as something wonderful that appeals to your total normal humanity, your desire for connection, meaning, and purpose.All of those things are really beautiful.
It might look like a hot yoga class. where everyone's so friendly afterwards.Thank you so much for coming.Can I get you a kombucha?A course on leadership and communication.A retreat on wellness and spirituality.An incredible business opportunity to sell a life-changing product from the comfort of your own home.Hashtag financial freedom, hashtag boss babe.You know who I'm talking about. or a Sunday coffee hour where the congregation or the sorority sisters or Montessori moms are all so quick to welcome you and shower you with praise.
Oh well, bless your heart.Oh my God, I love your hair.Welcome to the family. I'm not condemning any one of these things, trust me.I just want you to see the precursors.I want you to be able to tell the difference between a healthy human thing and something with a malignant endgame.Which brings me to the second thing I want you to know.Cults prey on your humanity in a way that is predictable in textbook. Do people keep telling you how special you are?Yeah, well, the special part is probably true.
But if that's combined with a lot of direct eye gazing and effusive smiles, that might not be love, but love bombing.A manipulation strategy that's designed to reel you in, something that's been used by so many people, from sex traffickers to David Koresh, the infamous and ultimately doomed leader of the Branch Davidians that led to the Waco tragedy. to Keith Raniere, to your next door neighbor selling essential oils out of the back of her trunk.All that love is designed to make you feel like you're part of something.The best yoga, the best fraternity, the best TEDx.Am I right?Best TEDx?This is the best TEDx, just to be honest.All of that love is designed to make you feel like you are part of something.That's it.
Are you part of a course or a group that's telling you that they've got the answers to life's questions? Or even better yet, the answers and solutions to the world's problems.Careful, that's dogma or doctrine.And those courses you're buying could just be classic indoctrination.You feel righteous about a group being the right way or the only way?That's basic us versus them mentality that's baked right in.That's a very convenient way for culty bad guys to isolate you from other people and the outside world. All of these tactics, offering answers and solutions and community and love and all these good things, it's just what binds you to the group slowly over time.Just like the frog in the pot of water.You know this cliche, right?
You throw the frog in a pot of hot boiling water, it jumps out.It knows what's going on.But if you put it in cold water and you turn the heat up slowly, it stays in.It doesn't notice.Just like you don't notice because it feels so good to be loved and be part of something. Or maybe you're just trying to get your money's worth or like me, prove your friends and family wrong.I'm not in a cult.And if and when that you notice that it's not what you signed up for in the beginning, it's too late.You're just a frog.You're bought in and you've been boiled.
Okay, so how do you know the difference between love versus love bombing?The tools, helpful tools versus the tools of coercive control? And something altruistic versus smoke and mirrors to hide something shady.How do you do that human thing called seeking when cults are insidious and any group can become culty?That's right, any group.Okay, first, you can write this down.You're not immune to cultic influence.Nobody is.And I know some of you are thinking, that'll never happen to me.If you think you're not susceptible, you're more susceptible than you know.
You might see some red flags and think you're just going to a carnival.NXIVM fooled some really brilliant people, captains of industry, business leaders.It's because this stuff isn't so obvious.It's just dynamics.It's called an abuse of power.Like, you ever had a boss ask you to work late on weekends, asking you to prove your commitment to the company, and you kind of felt like you couldn't say no? Or at a significant other, text you constantly and love bomb you, make you feel special, only for them to ghost you and have you question your own worth?Or been a part of a demanding social group?And you knew that if you missed even one night, you might be on the outs for a while.It could be anything from a group of college friends to a book club.
And remember, it doesn't matter how rational and skeptical you are, you're all susceptible.And look, hey, fair enough, you might not have been interested in NXIVM and my cult, I get it. But with the right place at the right time and the right trusted person inviting you, you may say yes to something else.Everybody's got their something, their hook.Remember, it doesn't look like what you see on your streaming platforms.It could be as fun and friendly as, you want to check out a spin class?A makeup party with wine and cheese.Hey, let's go foam bank for our favorite candidate.Have you ever tried cold plunging?I see you Portland.
That's why it's so important to know the signs and red flags of cultic abuse, especially in this day and age.We've all had to become hip in regards to internet safety, catfishing and hacking.How about we learn some cult literacy?So I'm going to teach you a couple of red flags, not all of them, but a couple of red flags so you can spot the signs.And remember, not any one of these things in and of itself is the problem.It's the whole package.So please know. The first thing is there's an assumption of your neediness.You're a broken bird, you're unwhole, and they have all the tools to make you whole again.That's very convenient.
Secondly, it's expensive.And please know that it might cost you more than money.It could cost you in time and relationships.Also, loaded language.If they're using pretentious terms to sound holier and smarter, Run.Be aware if there's rumors that they're a cult already, or if there's lawsuits or bad press.Where there's smoke, there is usually fire.And finally, if they're claiming to have the definitive answers to life's mysteries, big red flag.It's important to also see green flags that can signal this is a safe group.
Like questions are welcomed, you can ask things without being gaslit.Also, you can leave without being excommunicated, shunned, or trash-talked. Finally, there's a healthy amount of commitment, not an all-consuming change of your entire lifestyle.Hello, CrossFit.One more thing.It doesn't pop up in Google with articles from legit publications if you type in, is blank a cult. You'd be surprised how many people missed that one.I personally never Googled NXIVM, and it was 2005, but I never did.And look where that got me.So do your research, people.
But here I am now.I'm healing, and part of that healing is I'm just trying to clean up the mess that I helped make as the golden goose for NXIVM. And I'm also trying to, just as loudly as I vouched for Keith years before, I'm loudly trying to educate my fellow joiners out there about seeking safely.So, ultimately, the best advice I have for you to avoid a culty nightmare is just remember that all of these programs and communities and tools and answers and all this stuff is just a tool, not an answer. Nobody has all the answers.And I'm not here to point fingers and say, you're in a cult and that's a cult, or throw that word around loosely.Hey, you don't even have to use the word cult.I just want you all to be able to determine if whatever you're part of or thinking about joining is healthy for you.That's it.Because of course it's great to have new ideas to put into your tool belt of life.
That's likely why you're here today.Just don't make the tools your life. Maybe you don't need a guru, maybe you don't need a fancy retreat or an essential oil starter kit to be a better you.You're on a path of self-discovery and knowledge, but you're already whole right now.So this is my idea for you, and I hope you remember it on your journey, because to seek is so human, and to seek wisely is a very smart idea. I want only the best for all of you, so safe travels.Thank you.
