SPEAKER_05: Eleven Labs text to speech GPT. Correct. It generated a story for me, then convert it to an audio book to partners.
SPEAKER_03: Yes. Wow. And then see, the first thing it did was it came back and said, Well, what's the voice that you want to do it in? And I picked Jarvis. And so then it did the story for me. And then it generated the audio. And if I go over here, now, the story that was generated, I can play it. And let's listen.
SPEAKER_01:
Metropolis beneath the shadow of towering skyscrapers, lay a quaint little bookstore that seemed almost forgotten by time. So that's Jarvis from Iron Man. Avengers Iron Man. Yeah,
SPEAKER_05: I'm not sure what he made his debut. Wow, that's wild.
SPEAKER_00:
SPEAKER_00: This Week in Startups is brought to you by Squarespace. Turn your idea into a new website. Go to squarespace.com slash twist for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use offer code twist to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. gusto is easy online payroll benefits and HR built for modern small businesses. Get three months free when you run your first payroll at gusto comm slash twist. And LinkedIn jobs. A business is only as strong as its people. And every hire matters. Post your first job for free at linkedin.com slash twist. All right, everybody. Welcome back to this week in
SPEAKER_05: startups. And I've got my good friend, my bestie, Sandeep Madra here. He goes by Sunny, his real name is Sandeep. He's the co founder of definitive intelligence, you can go take a look at their website definitive.io. They do all kinds
of data analysis of private and public data with their AI enhanced system, their platform. And we get together here every week, usually on Mondays, but we've both been traveling to go over the latest updates in AI, the latest updates in AI. And we do that through demos, we've done over 100 demos, you can go see all of those demos at this week and startups comm slash AI. Well, that's it slash AI. How you doing Sunday?
SPEAKER_03: I'm doing really good. I'm excited. You know, there is so much stuff happening. And we should just get right into it.
Okay, give me the first one. Okay, the first one. So this one
is super cool. It's called Hume. And I think that's how you pronounce it. I'm going to just H U M e Hume. I would think it's Hume. Yeah, exactly. Hume.ai.
SPEAKER_03: Got it. Hume.ai. And what they do is they basically predict
call quality, attention and mood using an AI model. And so this
SPEAKER_03: is important, I think, in a lot of customer support use cases, or SDR use cases, where you're trying to do so or even if you're doing a podcast, and you want to basically get an understanding of you know, how you think people are interpreting it. So I took this, it takes a few minutes to run. So I had to kind of do this beforehand. But I took kind of a short clip of yours. And basically, I took one of their models, and I had to classify it. And basically, you know, it
SPEAKER_03: kind of did the classification around, you know, whether
you're self confident or self doubting just by looking at your video. And as you can see here, Jake Allen, you will not be surprised you came 99.39% self confident.
SPEAKER_04: Wow. You know what they say fake until you make it. I mean, if you believe it, you believe in yourself.
SPEAKER_03: I mean, so Jake, how this is it, right? Like, we've got to send this in our poker group. But like, oh, God, it's hilarious. Yeah, literally, you took a 30 second clip of me from the
SPEAKER_05: podcast. Yes. And Hume.ai determined I am 99.39% confident
SPEAKER_04: and point oh, 1%. In other words, I'm delusional to a level
SPEAKER_05:
that this computer system, this AI has finally unmasked exactly
SPEAKER_05: how delusional I am. I you know, I have so many thoughts on this,
but the AI can't be wrong, can it? That's my first larger
SPEAKER_03: sample size. Yeah. And so basically, it has a bunch of great models. Obviously,
SPEAKER_03: I tried tried this one self confident or self doubting, but they have Parkinson's versus non Parkinson's for Wow, health related, alert, burst, drowsy, attentive, risk distracted. So you can imagine for the people that are still working from home. And if you layer this into like a zoom, or maybe even, you know, Vinny's thing, which they renamed to roomie now, imagine how powerful this could be like, hey, are your people even paying attention when they're on zoom?
SPEAKER_05: Yeah. Yeah. And so there are a series of apps that do this for
SPEAKER_05:
salespeople. They've been around for a while. What I like about this is you're uploading the video you're not doing in real time. I take it. Yes. Yeah, you're doing this as coaching for individuals. So I kind of like this. As a in a way, it's kind of like having a speaking coach. You know, people will hire those to take out the arms and the odds or, hey, make eye contact when you do this look directly into your camera. So you know, one of the things I have a problem with is, especially when I'm moderating, right, which you do kind of the moderating job here you're reading. So I wonder if when you're reading like in your queuing things up, if that is distracted, or if that screws with your confidence, right? Whereas when I'm commenting, or like, you know, take the oil in podcast, I'm moderating, I have to like, take a series of facts, or I might be fact checking somebody or pulling up a chart. So I wonder like what impact that has on the sentiment analysis or these emotional analysis, confident versus not confident, distracted versus non distracted, but all of that's really good stuff. And yeah, you know, I think this is going to be built into zoom eventually. So zoom will probably give you some tips. Hey, you know what, you look a little sleepy. So this could be creepy and dystopian. But here we are. What
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_05: do you think? Is it accurate? Let me start with that. Do you
think this is accurate?
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, look, I only did like a couple of test things. Okay. And but you know, what I liked about it is exactly what you said. It allows you to kind of in an offline capacity, go and address that. And I think especially with the growth in the creator economy, with so many more people trying to do, you know, podcasts or make videos, this is a great way to get an analysis. Like I, you know, I watched this really good video by Colin and Samir, they were explaining like, sort of the challenges they have a Twitter video versus the other platforms and the amount of analysis that they do on a video, right in terms of just the regular analytics of where are people falling off and where are they coming in and, and all that. So this is just another layer now because you can you can add that to your repertoire, right and so
SPEAKER_00:
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It's interesting how obsessive people get about these. It's why I like podcasting to a certain extent when you're not on video because you can just focus on the words and just absorb that in the conversation. But increasingly people want to watch videos and then people are obsessed with clips. So we do clips of this show this week. Just double click clips will
SPEAKER_05: always be the actual original program but the original program you get people having a deeper understanding. So I kind of call
SPEAKER_05: it like drive by sampling or dervs versus sitting down and you know, doing the full tasting menu as it were right. So there are different experiences sometimes you just want to grab and go you know, I'm just gonna grab a quick hit I want to see one demo of this weekend startups AI demos on Mondays. You know, I just I want to see freeburg riff on science. I want to see Chamath do markets. I want to see Sax do Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine, whatever he's into at this moment in time. And you know, that might fit, you know, you know, a scratch your itch, so to speak. And so I think increasingly, you know,
SPEAKER_05: there are a group of people who only know certain podcasts from the clips, and they don't actually have the wherewithal
SPEAKER_05: the attention, the desire, some combination of those things to consume a whole podcast. I think the people who consume whole podcasts are your really serious audience. And then you have the secondary audience, which doesn't make it invalid, but they just you know, they're just kind of snackers, you know, they're grazing on the content, they're grazing. And that's okay to sometimes you convert one to the other, right? Sometimes people just listen to the whole pop, but they think the clip is
SPEAKER_05: funny. But more often than not, I think people go from like, yeah, watching a clip on Tiktok, or increasingly YouTube shorts, and then they find out, oh, this is a whole podcast. Maybe I should subscribe to that. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why I think
SPEAKER_05:
there's a whole new genre of people who are like, why do a podcast, I'll just do clips all day. I'll just do three or four clips. And then I hope that some hit. I find that you don't get
SPEAKER_05: the depth of podcasting with that, right. And so it's kind of
a missed opportunity. But it is valid, you know, to get a short people like shorts. Yeah, yeah. So you know, I think these the
SPEAKER_03:
team's done a great job. They made it super easy. It's very usable. They have like a playground like you'd expect. And so you know, I think this is all built, would you know what
SPEAKER_05:
language model they're using? Or what visual model they're using for this? Maybe you tell us a little bit about the technology behind this, and how it works shared a lot. So my my my
SPEAKER_03: understanding by going through the website is that they've taken models and tune them themselves, right. So they've taken models and given it or maybe even created the models that wasn't super clear where they've said, here's a bunch of folks that are look to be confident here, they look to be, you know, not confident. So this is the, this is the I want to call it fallout. But this is the next derivative of all this work that's happening in standard generative AI, people are looking at those techniques and applying it to even create their own models. If you were going to build this from scratch, how
SPEAKER_03: would you do it? I, it all comes down to the training set, right. So I would
use the same training philosophy that's used to build large language models. And I would basically have a bunch of video that is, you know, labeled, you know, confident, non confident, and then basically give it to the to the model to look at and learn, right? That's the beauty of it. You'd have to like, take that original data and say, you know,
SPEAKER_05:
this person's like an actor. Yeah, like, is the reason I'm
SPEAKER_03: coming across as super confident in that clip, because I was
SPEAKER_05: actually confident. Or because I've done 2000 podcast episodes, I wonder, I wonder if it's a performance thing, or it's actual reality. That's why I was wondering about the accuracy of this. So I would need to see more of this, I would need to put into this, you know, like, let's just say, you know, the
SPEAKER_05: top talk, Bill Gurley's talk at all in summit, he was super confident, he was funny. Yeah, he was pretty confident in his position, because he had experienced it, right. And then,
SPEAKER_05: you know, see what it says, because he also has a bit of a
SPEAKER_06:
SPEAKER_05:
southern axis from Texas. He's got a slower pace, he's very humble. So, you know, said another way, you know, the training data could say, maybe he's not confident. This is what
SPEAKER_05: I'm wondering, because he's humble, right? Or he's super confident, because they're an actor, right? And so yeah, I really need to get a lot more information on this to see if it's really, really working. But I would like to do here is I would like to run a test. This is how I would train it. I would have you give me a series of questions and answers. Jason,
SPEAKER_05:
what's two plus two? That's a four. You say, well, how confident are that's absolutely two plus two is four. And then you say, Okay, what's the square root of this? You know, 20
digit number? Yeah. And I'd be like, I'd be like, that's not confident, you know, unsure. And then or I would say, give this as the answer. And you would give me a piece of paper or on my screen would say, this is the wrong answer. I made it up and you say it but say confidently. And I'd say super confident is a wrong answer. And we try to trick it. Right? Yeah. And so you could have it lie, right? Hey, what's your name? Can you
SPEAKER_06:
SPEAKER_05:
say my name is Vinnie. And I say, No, your name is Sandeep. And you say, No, my name is Vinnie. And we go back and forth. And then we tell the language is lying. I wonder if I could tell lying. I mean, this is what's gonna happen to dovetail this story with Apple goggles. Yeah, I'm not calling
SPEAKER_05: it vision. I'm calling it goggles, because they look like
ski goggles. Apple goggles on. And now I'm talking to you, or I'm out in the real world. And we're wearing this at a poker game. Would I actually know you're lying or bluffing? Interesting. Oh, what about that use case? You're wearing
SPEAKER_03:
the you don't need the Apple ones. You can just wear the metal ones that just look like regular sunglasses. Because all this needs is a video capture. Yeah. And then it just buzzes your ankle two times on your right ankle means not confident
SPEAKER_05:
lying. And the left side means confident, you know, probably has it. I mean, this is going to be really, really interesting. And I wonder if people if you uploaded clips, you know,
SPEAKER_05: let's say we play with Jason Kuhn, or, you know, Phil Hellmuth. And if you uploaded all their clips, from when they play TV poker, and then said, Hey, they're bluffing here. Yeah, hey, they have it here. Oh, that's your training data,
SPEAKER_05: you go to training data, and then see, then if you could
actually take Jason Kuhn and break down his game in some way, or if he's in fact, unreadable, you know, like, the lead poker players versus amateurs. That can be really interesting.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah. Wow. Figure out what the live reads are. So there are
SPEAKER_05: people who think they're good at library. It's alright. So this
will be interesting to totally change the game with those meta glasses, because those are awesome. You can buy them in
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_03: like regular glasses, like not sunglasses mode. So you're gonna have to tell people, hey, you can't wear those. I don't know if you saw my tweet the other day, then what you think of this, but my position with Google Glass was and I told
SPEAKER_05:
this directly to Larry Page, like, okay, you have to when this thing's recording, you have to tell people, hey, you can't wear those glasses, like, you can't wear those glasses, but Larry Page, like, okay, you have to when this thing's recording
SPEAKER_06:
SPEAKER_05: or turned on, have a light. It should have a light that if it's
SPEAKER_05: turned on, it's green. And if it's recording, it's red, audio
or video. And, you know, I'm not big on regulation. You know, I'd rather the market dynamics, you know, sort of define this, but I don't know, what do you think of that? Like, if the standard was,
SPEAKER_03:
you know, it'd have to be green, if on red, if Yeah, so the kind of a circle, right? Yes. Doing it right now.
SPEAKER_05:
The circle go on when you're recording? Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: And then the humane pin was just at a dinner with one of the co founders, and then she had it and it has the same thing when it's recording. It's very clear that it's recording and it's active. How do you know it's recording? Is it red has like a
like a light on it? Yeah, like a very distinct, blinking red light. It's not a blinking red light. Yeah, this is what I
SPEAKER_05: think these guys are cowards. I'm not humane. They're probably nerds, too. But I think these folks are cowards in the in the
SPEAKER_05: wearable space to put on a red light. Because they think, oh, it's gonna be scary. I think it's the exact opposite. I don't think they're thinking straight. If these things are going to be adopted in society, and people are not going to get punched in the face for covertly recording people are kicked out of a bar like the glass holes did back in the day, the Google glass holes.
SPEAKER_05: Remember that the woman got punched or something? I mean, not for physical violence, but I am a realist. Like, if you came
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_05: up to me with like, I put a recording camera in my face now everybody's paparazzi you see what happens when like people do that to celebrities over and over again. Like people snap.
SPEAKER_05: It's not the society we want to live in. Yeah, so everybody should Yeah, there's a human human fight.
Apparently, trust you and it's recording. Yeah. Right. flashes
SPEAKER_03: like trust. Like I like the name trust light, but I don't know
SPEAKER_03: the color of the trust light like on a video camera back in
SPEAKER_03: the day. Remember those like those? That's what I'm basing it
SPEAKER_05:
on. When you had a video camera, they put a flash, they put the red light on or flashing red light. I give this one. I don't know how good it is. You know, potential. I think it's obviously like this is incredible. I'm going to just withhold my judgment and just give it a B minus for now. You
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_05:
know, I can't tell right now from the interface. I don't know how it's trained. Okay, that could be you know, me just not
SPEAKER_05: playing with enough. I'm gonna give it like a B minus right now. I think it's got potential. I want to really understand why when it that fact that it's at 99.999% confident that that just makes me not believe it. So, okay, I would
SPEAKER_05: need an explanation of some incredible score like that.
SPEAKER_03:
Okay. All right. I give it a B. I think it's like early. You
SPEAKER_03:
know, I was just pulling it up as we were doing it there. They've that model is only trained on at videos. Okay.
Yeah. You know, which one could argue is like, maybe not a big enough training set, but maybe we can hear back from the team and see what they have to say to us what you were you're at.
SPEAKER_05: Yeah. And then they can have on right. So you're right here is
SPEAKER_03: a trained on at videos. So it's like, so I pulled that one up. So you know what, I'm gonna give mine a B, because okay, I'm
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_05: gonna go from B minus to a B because they did explain that.
And I was the reason I was kind of like, a little down on this is because I didn't feel like when I looked at the face originally that it gave me enough context to give him you know, like, the score. Yeah, that was in the playground. If you go into the
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah, I think it's the same thing. And you know, there's a lot to learn from there. And you should have them on. I like the idea, though, of also knowing, combining this data
SPEAKER_05:
with health data, and knowing if you have early onset Parkinson's or Alzheimer's, or you're slurring your words. Like, I
SPEAKER_05: think this technology, if somebody was on a zoom call and was speaking, or if your phone was listening to you persistently, if you start slurring your words, if it knew
SPEAKER_05: if it just gave you an alert, hey, you're slurring your words.
Are you drinking alcohol? Or do you think you might be having a heart attack? Or we know she didn't get you only had three hours to sleep last night. You didn't get any REM sleep. Those are the three reasons you could be slurring your words and you just dismiss like I get the loud alerts. You ever get the loud alerts when your kids scream or something? Yeah. So my girls like to scream when I, you know, play tag with him, whatever.
SPEAKER_02:
SPEAKER_05:
Yes, I'm constantly getting these alerts. Yeah, yeah, that
SPEAKER_04: the decibel will start going deaf for my girls. Playing tag.
SPEAKER_04: Awesome. But you could do that, right? You could just be like,
SPEAKER_05: Hey, you might be having a lot of potential there for someone
SPEAKER_03:
to own this. Yeah, for sure. Great job. Listen, I know
SPEAKER_05:
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SPEAKER_03: comm slash twist. The next we're going to do just to it just should be a quick short, this is going to be an update on one of our bets which are also available at this week in startups comm slash bets. And
just a quick short one, I want to get your reaction. So this one, this is an analyst I follow like a chip analyst Dan nice debt on x, the iPhone 16 with generative AI expected to launch the debut in September with the 18 chip with you know, the latest dad. So this is a little tease. And, you know, you know, I know this is real. I'm just gonna click this article here. And it's like fully in like, you know, it's like some, which means it's like, you know, this is a real deal. Like someone knows what's going on there. So that's kind of I mean, that was a big portion of our league setting gadget
SPEAKER_05:
where either really executives who worked at the company or, you know, change and Akihabara factory Express where they just love the vague and they would just send us a picture from the line when they were making a star attack or some nonsense. Yeah. And we would get it from this has like the whole like
SPEAKER_03:
some, you know, some kind of slide right out of some presentation talking about the different, you know, chips and all that. So we don't know. But what they're saying is there's
SPEAKER_05:
going to be the a 18 chip, which is the chips that go in phones
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_05: as opposed to the M chips, which is a series of chips and silicon that Apple makes that goes in laptops. And the a 18 is
SPEAKER_05:
going to launch with the iPhone 16 with the iPhone 60, which is the next one. Yeah. And September, okay. And it will
have generative AI is going to debut and we have a bet. Yeah,
we're July 1. We do if these models will be built into the
SPEAKER_05: phones. Correct. And so I'll just pull that up because we
SPEAKER_03:
have the best site here. We now have the best side, which is
SPEAKER_05: supposed to get startups comm slash back that we're making and I think our bet was that it would be announced or released. That's the question. We said deployed locally on phone model
SPEAKER_03:
employed locally on devices. Okay. You win this one. Yeah, I
SPEAKER_05: win this one. No doubt because you know what the phone's not
SPEAKER_05: going to be in your hands until yeah, the fall. So I think I win this one. So if we had made the bet, this is where if you're a gambler, the definition of the bet matters. We didn't bet that it's announced. And then if you were going to bet it was announced, we'd say announced officially announced. So this is announced. Yes, unconfirmed. Yes, announced by Apple. So
SPEAKER_05:
there's three different bets we could have made leaked, announced officially in your hand. And so yeah, I witnessed
SPEAKER_05: one I think that we just I gave a little like concession or I
SPEAKER_03:
think is going to be I said is going to be close. It's gonna be close to our bets. I appreciate that. Yeah. All right. Okay. Quick update on our bets. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a $1,000 bets, by
SPEAKER_05:
SPEAKER_03: the way, folks. We're making $1,000 bet. We settle up.
SPEAKER_05:
Somebody could could sting could sting. And I and I like to hear
SPEAKER_03: that history of how you guys are getting the scoops because that's kind of my my scoop angle as well. Okay, let's keep
going. Okay, so this one is super exciting. Actually, it's
SPEAKER_03: an area that I'm passionate about personally. So this is a company called forever AI. That's how you pronounce it fr vr AI. And what are the r.ai is the website. Correct. It's
forever without the vows. Exactly. And there are like a bunch of seasoned game folks that have basically taken AI to create sort of cat these small casual games. And so we're gonna do like sort of a live demo here, where, you know, here's a game, you know, that you can play and basically, yeah,
SPEAKER_04:
SPEAKER_03: exactly. And I say, Oh, you know what, that's cool. So let me just die here. Okay, so what we're gonna do is we're gonna take this game, and we're gonna remix it. And so I'm gonna click this edit button here. I'm gonna click remix, that's gonna open it in their editor. And what I can do is I can say, make the
SPEAKER_03: ship, shoot dual missiles. Right. And what I can do is and
SPEAKER_03:
I just hit enter there. And what it's going to do is it's going
to go through the code right live and this is doing it and,
and it will basically edit the game. Oh my God. Yeah. And, and I mean, what? And so, yeah. And then the other
thing you can do is I can just go in here and I can say, let's just change this enemy and let's create a different enemy. So let's imagine this and give me a Donald Trump.
SPEAKER_03: 10. Okay, now that they won't let you do it. You know, the content filter? Yeah, I think the content filters are let's just try doing Darth Vader. Okay, look like Darth Vader.
SPEAKER_03: How about this? How about a make?
Try to see if it will do like adjacent to say, to say, Lord
SPEAKER_05: head. Right. Awesome. Yeah. Okay. Imagine, now you click
SPEAKER_03: imagine and see what happens. And then you click Imagine. And so it's going to do a gen generation here. And what what's really amazing is, and they've
got lots of different game styles here from side scrollers to you know, these shooters to space invaders, asteroids, but what this is going to do for game creation. It's like what we the way I think about is what we saw happen with YouTube and video. We're and you know, I believe video games have surpassed even Yeah, wow. It just make color red and some
SPEAKER_03: very creative Darth Vader look at that. And you can see now so now I can play it again. And now I have the Oh my god, that wild is genius. And yeah, and you can you can do even more sophisticated things than that. But yeah. And then you can basically publish this game. So you go back here and you publish your publishing. So it's democratized a number of things.
SPEAKER_04:
SPEAKER_05: Yes, you've democratized game publishing, and you've democratized writing code. Yes, this is and you're making the
SPEAKER_05: analogy to how YouTube democratized owning a TV network, you know, a channel on YouTube is essentially like having a channel on your cable box. So Mr. Beast is like, he's standing, you know, next to MSNBC and CNN and, you know, TNT,
SPEAKER_05: whatever, HBO, absolutely brilliant. Absolutely mind
blowing. Yeah, as kind of getting here faster than I
SPEAKER_05: thought, if I'm being honest, we're in year two of large language models. The absolute creativity and insanity here is awesome. They did narrow it right. So because you're editing an existing game that narrows, I think, what the AI
SPEAKER_05: has to do. So we didn't start with a blank piece of paper and say, I want to make a game that is like a Nintendo game. Yeah, that has a Sith Lord, you know, so it's not quite that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05: But it obviously is two jumps away from that. So you're
editing assistant code base, I got to give this an A I'm sorry for giving high scores of late. But this is literally mind blowing to me getting so good. Like we're kind of in a in a
SPEAKER_03:
world where it's really impressive. Like, and look,
SPEAKER_03: you've been really close. Yeah, close. You've been in content
SPEAKER_03: creation from the beginning. Yeah. And you've seen that transform. And you know, you've definitely seen the video game
industry. And this is going to fundamentally change it. So you
think about roblox, epic games, and everything that comes in and around it, I think we're going to see a massive explosion. And another prediction I'll make is I think we'll start to see creators now as well, where YouTube was the platform that was needed to highlight creators. Yeah, and I think we're going to see video game creators, because right now people create these games inside these platforms, we don't know about them. Yeah, we're gonna see that as well, someone's gonna be known for creating really incredible games in that way, rather than the main companies, we'll see individuals doing it.
SPEAKER_05: Just like, you know, people have created great podcasts, news channels, you know, email newsletters, these things, you know, even Drudge Report, you know, as just a solo reporter,
think about how he changed history with the Monica linskyville, flinton scandal, and you know, other ones that he broke, you know, a solo artist, a solo creator, being able to
SPEAKER_05: create something just as one individual that generates a million dollars, $10 million, $100 million, you know, DJs
doing that, right? There are DJs who make tracks just them on a laptop with a starlink connection, you know, on a boat boat, just change the world. Now, that might seem obvious now. But I can tell you haven't grown up as the generation Gen X is the generation that spans the pre internet post internet pre online posting online. Now you got a generation that's going to be pre AI post AI, post AI. Yeah, so just let's pause
SPEAKER_05: there for a second and recognize that our kids are going to remember there'll be the generation that remembers the time before AI and the time after AI, they would have submitted a school report, at least my older child would have submitted a report without AI. And now they're going to be doing it in college with AI, they're going to have done my
SPEAKER_05: younger kids who are seven, they're going to probably only remember submitting term papers or doing art with AI, they're only going to remember an AI world, they probably won't remember the time before AI. And this is going to be like a whole
SPEAKER_05: different way of looking at the world in the year 2000. Like you
SPEAKER_03:
don't know the world without the internet. You don't know
SPEAKER_05: the world without online. When I explained to people what it was
SPEAKER_05: like to get movie tickets. Yeah. Just the act of getting movie
SPEAKER_05: tickets and going and seeing a movie. So going to wanting to see a movie required going to a movie theater. And it required going to a movie theater when the movie was playing because there wasn't a virtual jukebox video player in the sky called Netflix or you know, Disney Plus, where you could just get Star Wars anytime. If we wanted to see Star Wars, we had to wait for the summer when they re released it. And it was so popular that every year, they would re release Star Wars before newspaper find the time then you go. Yeah, in line. No,
SPEAKER_00:
SPEAKER_03:
you'd wait in line, maybe even for that. Yes. Time, right? Yeah. So that time and you just got a ticket that was red, green or
SPEAKER_05:
blue. And it had a number on and they just ripped it in half and handed you your stuff back. You need to keep your stuff. So you get back into the beer if you went to the bathroom or something. And there was no arranged eating. And you
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_05: couldn't watch it at home. And then VHS came out, you go watch it at home. And we were like, Whoa, we can watch Empire Strikes Back anytime we want. Like that's all of a sudden happening in this AI generation. It's gonna be wild. Their expectation is that everything the other one travel agents are
SPEAKER_03:
the other one remember? Yes. If you wanted a ticket, explain to
SPEAKER_05: people if you wanted to go somewhere in the world, if you wanted to go to Tokyo, what did you have to do? Or you like,
SPEAKER_03: you'd go like the mall or strip mall. Yeah. And there'd be like a business and you'd walk in and they'd be sitting on a desk and you'd sit down with them and then you tell them where you'd want to go. And then basically, they would be on a screen and they would maybe type something terminal. They had a weird
SPEAKER_05:
SPEAKER_03: terminal. Exactly. Yeah. And then they they would give you a price and that would be it. And then they print your tickets.
SPEAKER_05:
Yes, your tickets and you needed to bring a giant envelope.
SPEAKER_03:
With remember that red thing too? Yeah. Because it make multiple carbon copies. Yes. And then not lose your ticket. Those Yeah, if you lost your ticket, yeah,
SPEAKER_05:
SPEAKER_05: you lost money and you could sell the ticket so I could take my ticket to France. Yeah, and hand it to you and sell it to you. Then you can take that ticket to an airport and say I have a ticket to go to Paris and they say okay, when do you want to go? Yeah, the ticket that was paid for already and they would
SPEAKER_05: put you on a flight. It was bizarre. Yeah. Your name wasn't
SPEAKER_02:
SPEAKER_05:
even in the system as you on the flight necessarily. There was no system. There was no system. You bought five tickets. They printed them, they exchange cash with you. You took these five magical pieces of paper and they let you on the flight with the paper. Yeah. And if they watch Home Alone, you know if you
SPEAKER_03: watch Home Alone during Christmas? Yeah. They have paper
SPEAKER_04: tickets. Bizarre. It's just absolutely insane. Sorry for
SPEAKER_03: two old guys having their minds blown. Yeah, we're kind of like, Oh my god, I remember everything you experienced Sunday for this
SPEAKER_05: generation. They're gonna say, Well, I don't like it that way.
Change it. You know, that's a great movie. But I want the
SPEAKER_05: protagonist to be a woman. I'm a boy. You know, an alligator, you know, and okay. I give that an A. I give that an A. Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03: What do you give? I give it I'm an A plus. Like, whoa, really? Well, I am. I'm a big believer in the video game economy, and
SPEAKER_05:
SPEAKER_03: what's happened with it. And I've been a gamer for a very long time. And so to see the ability for that ecosystem to explode is very exciting. I love Age of Empires, even in my older
SPEAKER_05: years, and I love playing a real time strategy. I started playing the frost giant game. Those are the people who made Starcraft and they're making like a new real time strategy is the RTS is
SPEAKER_05: my category. Okay. Command and Conquer Age of Empires.
SPEAKER_06:
SPEAKER_05: Starcraft will fall into real time strategy. It's seen like you build a civilization you can collect resources, build weapons, mine gold, whatever it is. Yeah. Wood. Yeah. Meet
SPEAKER_05: this stone and gold in Age of Empires. Yeah, a lot of fun. My
SPEAKER_05: daughters are into it now too. So yeah, I'm literally gonna buy three PC gaming laptops so we can all play Age of Empires
SPEAKER_05: together. And you have a LAN party again. We're literally gonna have a LAN party. Absolutely. Yeah. If you want to
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SPEAKER_03:
We're gonna go back to, you know, the folks that kind of kicked it all off. They've launched some new features recently, recently, back to chat GPT. Okay, this is open AI chat GPT. So here we are in the well known
SPEAKER_05: interface.
SPEAKER_03: So what you can do now is you can say, you know, I'm thinking
of flying to New York tomorrow,
SPEAKER_03: thinking of flying to New York tomorrow.
You can just say at kayak. Oh, and see now. Right? Yeah, are my
SPEAKER_03: options. You don't have to go hunt and pack to go find that's exactly it. So within your command line. Yeah. And so
SPEAKER_02:
SPEAKER_03: just give it allow here. And so within that, you can basically at mention, sweet. All the different GPTs that are in there. Yeah. And so and you don't even know if a GPT exists,
SPEAKER_05: you just be like at open table at Redfin at exactly Amazon and just see what happens. Yes. Yeah. And I think this is really
SPEAKER_03: smart for by them because you don't, you know, when this all started, so we're just seeing evolution by that. Remember, they kind of had these kind of apps. And then to add them yet
SPEAKER_04: to plug them in yourself. Yeah, they were just plugins initially. Exactly. Then they became sort of GPTs. Now they're
SPEAKER_03:
just within your command line. So as long as like recently used it or seen it, and you could you can see it here and you can see the flight coming in. Now it doesn't book it for you. But
SPEAKER_05:
yeah, you can click off to kayak to book it. Well, hopefully
SPEAKER_05:
that would launch the app if you had the kayak app on your phone or Yeah, it should. Well, because this was kayak. See, I want to have it have ad. United. Yes. You know, like I want to
SPEAKER_05: just do at United at JetBlue because those are the two I like most I like JetBlue. Well, they need to make a GPT if they want
SPEAKER_03:
to be a new to make it. Why don't you try that? Do a new one
SPEAKER_05: and see if there's an at United or you have to kind of discover
SPEAKER_03: the GPT. It is like you have to have been through them. So I don't think there's like a United Airlines. See one in
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, kind of just get this. Not yet. So if somebody
SPEAKER_05: works at United Airlines, like get on this, you got to, you know, this is like that whole race where people didn't have websites, then they didn't have apps. Now they don't have GPTs. Now we got to like drag everybody kicking and screaming to add a GPT. But it's gonna be incredible. You know, this is like the beginning of the super app like Uber, where you just,
you know, keep adding features to it. And yeah, God bless. It's
gonna be awesome. So I give them right for that. I think it's
SPEAKER_05: like a B. It's a baby. It could be better. Good. It's a good new
SPEAKER_03: feature, but it's gonna make it exactly what you said is it's making it such that you can do more within your chat GPT interface, which is smart. And going to continue to put them in front of a lot of folks in the race to be the internet's apex
SPEAKER_03: aggregator. Yeah, I mean, yeah, listen, if you're the platform,
SPEAKER_05: you're the aggregator, and then you have a certain number of users, everybody has to build it. Like I just said, there's no JetBlue. You know, in the early days, JetBlue is like, Oh, we
have a web responsive website, just use that. And I was like, I want an app. You know, everybody's like, I like an app. I like to have a pretty little button. Every Okay, I'll make an app and wrap our website in it. And then they're like, but your website doesn't work well in the app. So okay, I'll make a responsive app. Yeah, I'll make an actual app. Yeah. Anyway, I
SPEAKER_05: give this a B could be better, but it's a great. It's like,
SPEAKER_03:
it's just a feature. And it puts it in there. I think it's, it's worth thinking about. Okay, now, would you add to it, if you
SPEAKER_05: were sitting there brainstorming, I had one thing, which is I want to be able to do it without having to add them first, right. And I want to be able to do multiple, right?
SPEAKER_03:
That those are the two things that I really found like, you have to kind of have discovered them first. And I don't want to do that. Right. And I want to use multiple I want to say, you know, the ticket then then open to open table. So we're both
SPEAKER_05: bees, solid bees. Yeah, Sunday be for Jacob. Let's keep going. That's it. Okay. So just on this same track, what we're going to
SPEAKER_03:
share is last Friday, I believe, or Thursday. Okay, so, you know,
maybe we're like four or five days ago, hugging face launched something called their assistance. And so what they're what they've done is they've kind of created an open community to create their own GPT. So GPT is so let's bring everyone up to speed 3 million were available at launch. And so this was launched four or five days ago, they already have 3000.
SPEAKER_03: Whoa, hugging face. Yes, has their own GPT is now correct.
SPEAKER_05:
And the language are they written in like how you know, what's the standard here? I'm assuming it's some sort of open face. Some sort of open source approach here or you can write
SPEAKER_05: any code nation one. Exactly. And you can kind of plug it into
SPEAKER_03: you know, they kind of follow the same template and framework as open AI. But instead of having to build it using open AI, you can kind of build it whichever back and you want and it becomes available in their ecosystem here. So is it portable? So which is to say, can I take this one and use it
SPEAKER_05:
at chat GPT? I don't think so. I don't think they're portable
SPEAKER_02: right now. Yeah. So this is gonna be this is where somebody
SPEAKER_05: could this we're hugging face can do a lot of damage, they could just say, we're gonna make an open source standard. These apps are portable. So the chat G, what does chat GPT call them now? GPTs GPTs GPTs Yeah, do they own the IP around GPTs GPT
SPEAKER_02:
SPEAKER_05: is a common word or do they own the GPT is a technology right?
SPEAKER_03: So they can't own that. So yeah, portable GPTs or making a GPT
SPEAKER_05: standard would be a great thing for hugging face to do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:
Okay. When you create one, you go kind of go through a similar process. And you know, we did one of these when GPTs first came out. And then you can pick a few different models here that
SPEAKER_03: you want to have. So disruptive.
SPEAKER_03:
Yes. But what I would say here is what look now you're just
starting to see the ecosystem go to different directions. With GPTs, you're limited to using their models here, you can kind of pick between mixed role llama. Oh, so pick the metal one, I want to pick the metal one.
SPEAKER_05: Let's pick metal. Sure. Lom. Okay, this is Zuckerberg's open source. And you saw his announcement with his stock
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_05: ripping. Thank you. Yes. Yeah. So let's name ours. Let's name ours healthy recipes. Okay. Okay. And the description is
SPEAKER_05: make healthy recipes. Well, this is the description. Okay. Okay,
SPEAKER_02: healthy recipes. Whatever. Yeah. Like, this is not the
SPEAKER_05:
instructions, right? instructions. Right? You'll see
SPEAKER_02:
you act as a world class chef. Okay, so you're giving the
SPEAKER_05: prompt you'll act as a world class chef. Yeah, provides healthy recipes, healthy recipes to your users. Oh, I gotta lock
SPEAKER_02:
in here.
Okay, but I get it. You could put the all the instructions and
SPEAKER_05: you could say, Listen, we don't want to use those oils. Now you people tell you don't use all these oils, right? And then you can say, Hey, we're not going to use these vegetables that have inflammation. You're not going to include these you're not going to include that you're going to, you know, keep sugars
SPEAKER_05: to natural sugars, and then boom, it just starts making your recipes. I love it. Exactly. Fantastic. This is great. So
SPEAKER_05: like, this is where like, if you're going to build a startup
SPEAKER_05: in AI, you're going to need to have training data as a differentiator brand or the accoutrement the tools, the features around the AI, right? And so yes, yeah. Okay. And I'm
SPEAKER_05: working on like 2.0 of my vision for the inside stuff I showed you. Yeah, yeah. And I'm gonna show it to you because I got a
I got a new team working on it. I switched teams. Sometimes you
SPEAKER_05: got to switch teams, you know, switch teams, the team did a great job on the first part, but I wanted to go with a different type of team to build it. And I realized, well, everybody's going
SPEAKER_05: to be able to summarize the news. That's like, table stakes,
SPEAKER_05: like, it's not going to be a big deal. So I came up with two ideas on top of that, that, okay, we can replicate that have network effects. So anyway, I've been thinking through like, okay, all
SPEAKER_05: the cool little things you can do. summarizing, finding
whatever, that's all good. But there's another layer that you can't, which is the network, the brand, etc. So look for an inside app coming soon. For this. This is another one where
I'm going to give it a B plus to give it room to grow. But yeah, it's totally fantastic. What are you giving?
SPEAKER_03:
I'm going to be a little bit. I'm going to be a little bit higher there. Because I what I like about this is embracing the open source ecosystem. And so I'm going to get put them at an a because what they're really doing is embracing all the different models, all the different companies that are putting models out there. And so that's going to lead to a much better ecosystem for us. And I think you can see the open approach. Yes, it's much better for everyone.
SPEAKER_05: Could, could you say I want to build like a two layer, you
know, app? I think they call these assistants. Is there a
parlor so they call it assistance systems? Yeah, instead of GPTs? Could you build one that says, Hey, step one,
SPEAKER_05: we're going to help you write a script using llama. You know,
you're a director, you're your screenplay writer, step two is, we're going to take that and we're going to make a movie out of it using, you know, instead of using the llama model, what's the visual when you use stable diffusion, maybe what's the video one, runway dot ml, I think that was
SPEAKER_03: runway dot ml. Right. So like, you got to build it in two steps
SPEAKER_05: kind of situation. Really interesting. I'm going to give us a B plus. I think it's great. Yeah. Okay, awesome. Let's do
SPEAKER_05: one more. And then we'll wrap the show another great one. Okay. Another great show. You can see all of our AI demos at
SPEAKER_02:
SPEAKER_05:
thisweekinstartups.com slash AI.
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I'm gonna go back to chat GPT for this one as well. I
thought this was pretty cool. And you know, it's a use case,
SPEAKER_03: which is really, I think is going to take off. It's using
the 11 labs, you know, we've had them on before, I think you guys even do a bunch of work with them. And so what I did
here was I said, generate a short story for me then convert it into an audio book, two paragraphs. And I did it using the 11 labs text to speech, 11 labs text to speech, GPT. Correct. It generated a story
SPEAKER_05: for me, then convert it to an audio book to power. Yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_03: Wow. And then see, the first thing it did was it came back and said, well, what's the voice that you want to do it in? And I picked Jarvis. And so then it did the story for me. And then it generated the audio. And if I go over here, now, the story that was generated, I can play it. And let's listen.
SPEAKER_01:
Metropolis beneath the shadow of towering skyscrapers, lay a quaint little bookstore that seemed almost forgotten by time.
So that's Jarvis from Iron Man.
SPEAKER_05: Avengers Iron Man. Yeah, I'm not sure what he made his debut.
SPEAKER_03:
Yeah, wow. That's wild. Right. And so like, look at the number of things that have come together there. The story
SPEAKER_03: generation is coming from, you know, the model for a GPT for then you have 11 labs doing their text to speech, as well. And then yeah, think about what we're going to be able to do very, very quickly here. And it's crazy. Yeah. And then the
SPEAKER_05: question becomes like, if I'm writing a novel, yeah, am I not
going to use this? And then I'm going to start I wonder if people are going to start saying this is organic 100% human, like
literally the label 100% human, no AI inside. Like I know this sounds crazy and dystopian. Yeah, but I think your next book, your next book would say there's no AI, no AI
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_05: AI free, like, you know, how some people are into organic non GMO, they put labels on food. I wonder if we're gonna start labeling content. Like this is organic, right? So that's
SPEAKER_02:
impossible.
SPEAKER_05: Well, I mean, no, it's not. I mean, people make acoustic music. And they just say, like, imagine I said, this is one take a cute acoustic music. I take out my guitar, I play the song,
SPEAKER_05: and you get to experience Tracy Chapman. I never saw that at the Grammys. The Grammys. Yeah, that was great. Huh? I mean, I was I
SPEAKER_05: got a lot of feels from that. Yeah. But the you know, like,
whatever. 30 years later, and I saw your tweet, right? Yeah, I
SPEAKER_05: used to listen to that trait that Tracy Chapman Chapman meant a lot to me. Because I was eight 1718 years old when it came out of 17 years old 1988. And I was going to Fordham. And I got I had a CD Walkman, you know, and I would, you know, get
SPEAKER_05:
a bunch of double A batteries, I pop that in there. And that was like, my guilty pleasure was listening to that album on the way to school. You know, Fordham, I went at night and I would commute. And then to see her, you know, she's kind of, you know, doesn't perform, I guess publicly or whatever, all that much spotlight completely. Yeah. First time in a long time
SPEAKER_03: that she's perfect. She was just so powerful. And then you see
SPEAKER_05:
the guy singing with her who had done the cover of it. And he's just an author. Yeah, just like a great, like multi generational
SPEAKER_05: awesome moment. We're noticing a lot of things like she had no
SPEAKER_03:
monitor, like just old school, right? Yeah, you know? Yeah,
SPEAKER_03: that's what I was noticing when she was playing. There's some
SPEAKER_05: very intricate finger picking in that song. Yeah. Yeah. And I was
SPEAKER_05: watching for the finger picking and stuff like that. And it's like, you know, I think with this AI stuff, just like we're
SPEAKER_05: going to be like free range chicken as opposed to factory raised or no hormones, no GMO, whatever, you know, organic food, whatever. I think that's gonna start happening where so much of what we consume is so processed, content wise, the words, the music, etc. That people might say, you know what, I just want to see a human do this without the computer. Just
SPEAKER_05: like you might want, you know, some people might like to go to electronic music festival and watch somebody press the play button. And then you know, the DJ is like moving a bunch of knobs. I don't think they're actually changing anything. I
SPEAKER_03:
think they hit the play button. And there's that list. Everything is already done. Right? Like, it's kind of already programmed.
SPEAKER_05:
They're just jumping around and you know, getting the you're kind of getting everybody hyped. But it's kind of fun to see
SPEAKER_05: somebody actually do it as a human and say, wow, the human can do it too. Yeah. Anyway,
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_03:
remind me like classic classic cars. Like Tesla. Yeah, which is
SPEAKER_03: incredible and super safe. Drive. Like, you know, but then there's like an old Corvettes. Yeah, well, yeah. And then you
SPEAKER_05:
think about those cars. So I think that you can get in there
SPEAKER_05: and change the carburetor. You change the spark plugs, you
SPEAKER_03:
could, you know, change timing a bit. Yeah, yeah, everything. You
SPEAKER_05:
can tweak it. And then think of this. All these cars now can
drive themselves can be remotely controlled. I don't know if you've turned this on on your Tesla, but you can turn the cameras on and it's like a remote camera system. Did you turn that on yet in the app? Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah,
SPEAKER_03:
where you can turn it on and kind of look around the car. Yeah, I've seen that. So like when your car is in your
SPEAKER_03:
driveway, you can be in bed and you hear something outside, you
SPEAKER_05: turn it on, you can see all around your car. So your car is like, eight security cameras. It's pretty crazy. Yeah, and you can see you can turn the inside camera on except if the car is moving, then you can't turn it on. So because some safety there. But I was just thinking, if you don't want to be tracked,
SPEAKER_05:
you could get in a Mustang, leave your phone at home, drive
to Mexico, and have a wad of cash and drive to Mexico and just disappear. Or you could have your phone in your car and
SPEAKER_05: you'll live stream it for the entire world in HD. It's like, the world has changed that much. And this past year, it's changed
incredibly. All right, so what do we give that? You basically
created an audio book soup to nuts. I mean, it's
SPEAKER_04: a prompt, a prompt. Who's like one of my favorite characters,
SPEAKER_03: right? Yeah, well, it's also an actor who probably should be
SPEAKER_03: getting paid. Well, I'm sure 11 is like, you know, they're
11 probably licensed. Yeah, yeah, flat rate. I bet he should
SPEAKER_05:
be getting paid per minute. When you when you hit you should be
SPEAKER_05: able to listen to it. But when you publish it, you should have to pay like $1 per minute or $1 per hour or something. Because we're getting some residual, I give that a B. Okay, right now,
SPEAKER_05: I would give it an A if it actually uploaded it to a store and let people buy it. Not necessarily audible because
SPEAKER_05: they're going to not let you publish this stuff to Audible. Yeah. But if you could publish it to distro kid or whatever
SPEAKER_05: those third party tools are, like my friend, so made, where
SPEAKER_05: then there was a store where you could buy the audio book, that would be kind of cool. So yeah, I give it a B. It's incredible.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I'm kind of there like B plus, like, it's all
SPEAKER_03: stitched together a bit. And so the only thing that needs to go to like the next level, it needs to be totally seamless, published, get on, you know, the thing is, it's all inside the chat GPT ecosystem. I want that on my phone. And I want it in my, you know, yeah, oh, here's the chapter headings. Here. Let's do the cover. So it's like, it's, it's like, it's getting
SPEAKER_05: there. But I give it a bit. Right. Listen, been incredible. It's been incredible. Great episode. If you would like to be
SPEAKER_05: featured on this weekend startups AI edition, it's typically every Monday this weekend startups.com slash AI to see all of the get the playlist and everything. See all these bets and everything we're doing. It's incredible. Yeah, just at mention us on the Twitter, or the x formerly known as Twitter at Sun deep at Jason. Yeah, I'm still at Jason left my accounts
been banned for asking somebody who they are. You got you got
SPEAKER_03: pretty close. They're pretty close to my first Twitter man and then your your bestie jumped in for a second. Yeah, you like
SPEAKER_05: just people who don't know what we're talking about. It was talking about here at the end of the show. Yeah, of course. So there's a I'm not gonna say the name of the account because I don't want there to be like pile on or I'm just trying to let
SPEAKER_05: this thing settle. There are anonymous accounts on Twitter that have gotten very large. Some of them have been funny like Goldman Sachs elevator, right? Or, and then some of them have been particularly hurtful to some some people feel they've been hurtful. Not making any political judgments here. But like libs of TikTok is an account. And the libs of TikTok
SPEAKER_05:
account I will talk about because that's been a very public one. There is a term called doxy. Now, what do you
consider doxy? I'm curious, before today, and this whole brew ha that I got into on x, what did you consider doxy?
SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, I'm kind of polluted now because I've read the thread. But like, so fortunate to try to go back. Yeah, yeah. What I would have considered is basically highlighting someone's true, like true identity and public information, like where they like the whole doxy would be the whole, like everything. That's what I would have put it. Got it. Okay. The package. Yeah, yeah. Here's where you live.
SPEAKER_05: Here's where you work. Here's your name. Yeah, got it. Just public number. Yeah, public information. Yeah, I've always considered doxy like here's somebody's location. And I
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_05: understand that people feel differently about this, we're going to need a new term, doxy location, doxy identity. So I'm
SPEAKER_05: going to for the purpose of this conversation, we're going to have when I say doxy location, doxy identity, doxy location, we
can all agree, no bueno, dangerous, don't do it. Now
doxy somebody's identity means if they use a pseudonym, they call themselves, you know, limbs of tik tok, or whatever that account is called. Does that person have the right to be
SPEAKER_05: anonymous? Is the question? What do you think on social media?
SPEAKER_03: Well, I don't know if they have the right to be anonymous. Yeah. But I think they're trying to be anonymous. Right. And, you know, it's on them to protect themselves, right? It's like most of the these accounts, you know, even we've had some in our own circles, right, that were close to us. And then you realize one of our friends or something like that as well. So
SPEAKER_04: fake chamomile is coming to mind. Exactly. Right. Right. So
SPEAKER_03: there's parody accounts. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think the real
SPEAKER_03: challenge is, is once once you're doing that, like, you have the right to remain that way? No. But it's sort of, I guess, the double edged sword that you get with. Yeah. And so
SPEAKER_05:
with great power comes. Yeah. So my position is, hey, with, I simply asked, and I did it multiple times, because people kept asking me to cover. Yeah, on the podcasts. This one
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_05: particular account was like, your intent wasn't like, who is
SPEAKER_03:
this person? Where's his address? It was like, sort of like, hey, who is this person? Like, who is this person? I just had the same way. This person was with fake chamath. Right? Like, who is this person? Right. And then I asked the person
SPEAKER_05:
himself, like, Who are you? Yeah, like, I'm curious, because
SPEAKER_05: you're breaking in this to the person's credit, they seem to be
SPEAKER_05: breaking news, or somebody is using them as a vehicle to break news. So correct to peek behind the curtain, when you have these large accounts, there can be, it could be anything. It could be
SPEAKER_05:
an individual who is just a random person commenting.
Great. That's like one thing, it could be a team of people, it
SPEAKER_05: could be a political organization. It could be a
foreign actor who wants to spread misinformation. It could be a useful idiot, who is being given information by a foreign
entity to spread it or by clever people who are using them to spread it. And so the question is, you know, these things can
get very big, hundreds of 1000s of followers, perhaps millions, I don't know if any of them have millions yet. And so I believe
SPEAKER_05: people should own their words. I believe it's fine for them to
try to be anonymous. I believe it's fine for people to try to figure out who they are. In that game of cat and mouse, you don't have the right to be anonymous and have a huge
following. And then it's okay for platforms to to have different rules. It turns out the rule on x now for those formerly known as Twitter is you. I guess the rule is you can't reveal somebody's identity,
SPEAKER_03: identity. Yeah, that was made clear by Elon, right? He said you can be launched and you can reveal people's identity. And he wants
SPEAKER_05:
to protect people because they don't want to lose their job. I disagree. I know this is incredible for people to think that, you know, two friends might disagree about something. But there's different platforms. Reddit is got pseudonyms to Twitter is going to be pseudonyms. I like people to own their words. And yeah, that doesn't mean I want to actively,
SPEAKER_05: you know, have people get out it or whatever. But I do think if you want to have a huge platform, and you want to have
impact in the world and cover things like politics or, you know, whatever, or do something full contact, like the libs of tick tock account is very controversial, because it's amplifying to a very large level things that are public already, that people maybe didn't expect that they would get brigaded when libs of tick tock highlights, you know, some lib person saying something really stupid, and then, you know, 1000 maga people attack the person or whatever. So anyway, I think
SPEAKER_05: whistleblowers, pseudonym accounts, and anonymous
sources, they can all exist in the world, I don't have a problem with them existing. I also don't have a problem with
whistleblowers being revealed, it's dangerous. But that's part of the the you know, the choice you make as a whistleblower is
that eventually you will be revealed, you know that, but it's almost a certainty. pseudonyms, you're going to be
revealed eventually, if you get any kind of credibility or
growth, and I actually think that publications like
journalists rely on anonymous sources too much. And I think if
SPEAKER_05: you that's where I think you can get people to understand the point. We've all now seen anonymous sources are like a driving force of journalism now. And it's way too much. I mean,
you just go to somebody, you're like, I'll give you anonymity if you say something crazy about this person. And then you don't know if it's a lie or not. And they gave the person anonymity.
SPEAKER_05: It feels profoundly unfair to a lot of people. And I think it's overused. Yeah, what I that's my position. I don't know what you
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_05: think when I like to know what Elon said is he at least put the
SPEAKER_03: stake in the ground and said, Look, this is what we're going to do here. And so now he's clear. And yeah, and he's made it clear. And if you don't like that, I guess you don't have to use Twitter or x. Right. And, and, look, I sort of expect in
SPEAKER_03: other places that, you know, if I'm reading maybe traditional media, that they're not doing what you're saying, which it does happen, where if they have a source, they will verify who it is, and they don't allow the source, they may keep the source anonymous for the sake of the article, but they may go verify who the person is. Yeah, they will verify who it is. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's going to be the difference between x and maybe, well, not traditionally, we want to know how they do that other platforms. Yeah, you know, let's
SPEAKER_05:
say somebody was an employee of yours, and they wanted to leak a piece of information about a project you're working on. The way they could prove that to a journalist is the journalist lets them contact them from their private email address. And it's okay. What's your LinkedIn page? And you say, Oh, this is my LinkedIn page. So great. Put the word in your bio,
SPEAKER_05: put a comma after that word, a typo, you know, put a typo there put two O's instead of one Oh, and then refresh and then tell
me to refresh the page or refresh. Okay, now take it out. We refresh. Okay. Now they've confirmed it's you. Yeah, nobody
SPEAKER_05: else knows how they confirmed. And you know, now you're off to the races. So hopefully, journalists are doing that kind of thing where they try to, and then making sure that that
SPEAKER_05: LinkedIn page has existed for a long time. And it is followed by other people, the company, whatever. But you know, then the
SPEAKER_05:
question then there's like all these edge cases that came up.
What if a journalist outs the lips of tik tok account, which I
think Taylor Lorenz did tell her friends found out who the person was, and then wrote a story about her recently. Yeah. If she
SPEAKER_05:
did that, in the New York Times or Washington Post, but didn't
do it on tik tok, does she get her ex account ban? No, she
didn't do it on x. She didn't do it on x. Yeah, he didn't do it
SPEAKER_05: on x. Okay. Now she links to her story where she did it.
Does she get bad?
SPEAKER_02: slippery slope, man, I would say yes. In that case, I would say
SPEAKER_05: yes, because you link to it. And so it's the same thing. Now, if
SPEAKER_05:
you link to it, after the story comes out and say, I disagree with this, they shouldn't have outed this person and you link to the story. Did you doc them?
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think
SPEAKER_03: the if you link to a story where somebody got doxed, are you
SPEAKER_05: done? I don't think so. I don't think I'm responsible at that point.
SPEAKER_03: Yeah. No, that is already out. I think you know, the original doc seen right. By the way, just a piece of advice, somebody
SPEAKER_05:
who's had security comes, don't run an anonymous account at scale if you have security concerns, or turn this account off, start a new one with a different persona, and then roll
SPEAKER_05: your account so that because you the longer the footprints out there, the greater the chance they're going to get you, you
know, and figure it out. And these people do have ways of figuring it out. They they figured out who startup Jackson was remember that startup? Parker, it was Parker. It was Parker. I worked very closely
SPEAKER_03: with you. Yeah, they figured it out, I think because they took
SPEAKER_05:
his tone of voice and then they used AI to check another thread. I think Oh, no, no, no, no, no, I think so. I think or they use
SPEAKER_05: some sort of software to say like, what words to this person using common and it was Yeah, so anyway, I'm people owning their words. That's a good little short discussion we had here
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_05: about it. Okay. All right. Yes. So don't don't dox anybody.
Don't obviously location. Anybody is gonna AI will figure it out though that maybe they
SPEAKER_03: are. If you say I just did this to use AI to figure out who they
SPEAKER_05: are. I can also protect you. You could say yes. Hey, I want to say
SPEAKER_05: this. Yeah, but say it for me in a way that's not traceable and
SPEAKER_03:
SPEAKER_05: not in my voice. So there's a tip for people who want to stay anonymous is use AI to rewrite what you're writing. Yeah, that's
SPEAKER_05: you don't even know your own tics. Okay, we'll see you all next time. Bye bye. Hey, everybody. I talked to a lot of
SPEAKER_05: founders here on this week in startups and as an investor, and they tell me the same thing over and over again, they want two things from me more FaceTime and money. They want me to invest in their companies, and they want to spend time together. So we've been working here on a new meetup program. We call it founder Fridays and founder Fridays are an event by founders for founders. This is an event that is hosted in cities by people like you. If you're listening to this week in startups, you're a founder. So what are you going to do at founder Fridays, you're going to get together with other founders in your community, it could be four or five of you, it could be maybe up to 30 or view in a location, pick a cafe, pick a co working space, I like to go to a great Mexican joint or maybe a dim sum restaurant, you know, we can do shared food, have a couple of cocktails, maybe you do it on a Friday, you get together and you host it. Now, why is it important for founders to get together? Shouldn't you be at home just focusing? Shouldn't you be in the office just focusing on your startup? Well, if you get together with other founders, true founders who are in the arena building like you are, you're going to get a lot of value from that because you can trade notes with that other founder about what's working at your startup and what's not working. The truth is, if you're facing a problem, there are hundreds of founders out there who have probably solved it already. And instead of you banging your head against the wall, when you sit there and you talk to three or four founders, you're having some dim sum, you're, you're splitting the quesadilla, some prahitas, somebody say, Oh, you know what, I had that same human resources problem. Oh, I had that same technical problem. Oh, I had that same marketing problem. And they might tell you about a tool or a service that'll solve that problem for you. This happens over and over and over again, when I do founder Fridays with our portfolio companies. Now we're going to give you that same experience. But here's what I need you to do. I need you to host this in your city. So you're going to go to this week in startups.com slash meetups, that's it. And you'll see a landing page where you can sign up and you can say I want to host in my city. Now your city may already be hosting so you can just join that person. And what if you go to this event, and you learn some go to market strategy that 10 x is your growth that might unlock funding, or you might be talking to somebody, they say, Hey, I'm a marketplace to I'm not a competitive marketplace, your marketplaces for used cars, my marketplaces for hairstylists, whatever your jam is, whatever you're working on, but they give you some technique that you didn't know about to increase your supply side or get more demand in your marketplace, and you 10 x your business. I see this happen all the time. And founders are like mutants, right? And I'm like Professor X here, I'm trying to put on Cerebro and find all the founder mutants in the world, and then have you get together and do your own little meetup. And here's what you're not going to have to deal with. You're not gonna have to deal with a bunch of service providers trying to sell you software or services. And you're not going to have to sit through a bunch of passive speakers, you can listen to this week in startups and get the greatest speakers in the world on your own time. And you're not going to have to pay for a ticket to a conference or get on a plane or fly somewhere. No, this is about having an intimate experience with 510, maybe two dozen other founders in your city. Please go to this weekend startups comm slash meetups. If you are a founder, this is for founders by founders only. If you are not a founder, this event is not for you. You can start your own meetup for lawyers, accountants, recruiters. This is for founders by founders, we vet everybody to make sure you're a founder. And if you host it, it's a non commercial event. Our first founder Friday will start on February 2. So please mark your calendars and we're going to do these on a rolling basis. You can join an existing meetup if it's already occurring in your city, or you and one or two other founders can start your own. We're using a wonderful piece of software that we've invested in called river, you can sign up for a river account just by going to this weekend startups comm slash meetups. We've already got hosts and attendees lined up in San Francisco, New York City, Toronto, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, London, and even in India. So this is your chance to connect. And if you didn't hear your city name, you can start your city go to this weekend startups comm slash meetups
